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Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by loceng on Monday February 22, 2021 @06:27AM (#26223284)
That "for some reason" is that's obvious abd straight forward to anyone being honest and not trying to push propaganda is that Bitcoin, and other blockchains structures like it, are MLM schemes - and that it's decentralized and on a global scale is why it's been able to pick up so much energy - aligning people and industrial complexes globally to bring it mainstream.

Design a blockchain system where it's agreed upon consensus and use/adoption is voluntary through democratically elected processes (save regulatory capture), and we'll have a good system that's not unnecessarily and unreasonably transferring wealth from later adopters to earlier adopters. You won't be able to make a fortune on it by buying it and pumping it to make its value goes up, nor will you be able to make money selling shovels to desperate or greedy or gullible people once they catch wind of the "gold rush."

The one major benefit of all if this craziness is that the flood of money into blockchains has meant technology development and many more engineers with experience; whether there are engineers who'd work on non-Pyramid/MLM-Ponzi scheme blockchains though, if they're financially incentivized/aligned with Bitcoin et al, that's TBD.

Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by louwrentius on Monday February 22, 2021 @06:48AM (#26223437)
Can you point to a legitimate problem that “blockchain” can solve, which can’t be solved with existing tools?

I think every smart person working on any kind of blockchain-related tech is seriously wasting their talent and life.

Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by loceng on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:26AM (#26223704)
There may be existing tools that are foolproof that can provide an immutable ledger, I'm unsure if that's fully possible otherwise, however having all transactions and changes to said system being public would prevent things like nations printing money without reporting it accurately - helping to make sure everyone's playing a fair game; using such a ledger would have to be voluntary, with nations who are aligned with similar values.

Edit to add: This may in fact be the only important use case for blockchain, where nations under different groups of democratic-based control, agree to use the same blockchain - so they can all know no one else is cheating the system. The transparency could allow public, peer analysis of transactions as well - and who knows what insights or protections-security could come from having that crowdsourced witnessing occurring; perhaps distributing the mining amongst the citizens of each nation as well, if deemed necessary as a safeguard.

Serendipitously, this was just posted to HN: "Data Immutability, Verifiability and Integrity Without the Blockchain Overhead" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26221324

Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by louwrentius on Monday February 22, 2021 @05:37PM (#26231626)
You are trying to solve a problem that is a feature. Printing money is a feature to keep our societies afloat during dark times.

It is one of the tools to keep a currency stable.

Not to say that there aren't serious problems in the fin-tech world, but immutable ledgers and rigid currencies aren't going to solve those.

The key problem - and your post is yet another example - is that you can't replace trust with an immutable ledger.

https://www.schneier.com/essays/archives/2019/02/theres_no_g...

The real problem - in my view - is that people don't understand the foundations of a society anymore, how to live together.

Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by loceng on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @11:48AM (#26239485)
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying.

"... is that you can't replace trust with an immutable ledger."

"The real problem - in my view - is that people don't understand the foundations of a society anymore, how to live together."

I agree with you 100%. Also, I never said we should prevent printing money with blockchain - the purpose and value is so that if a nation does print money, they're open and honest about it. It would be their own democratic decision to do so, likewise in the blockchain system I envision - it would be that same democratic process, decision making, that they would want to join such a managed system that other trusted-democratic nations are part of - where they believe in the transparency of it all.

And I never even alluded to replacing trust with an immutable ledger, just that an immutable ledger becomes a witness that each nation would decide to be witnessed by by their peers.

All of my projects are health-wellness focused, in part to help people develop their self-awareness, to gain and maintain their health, and in part that is healing through community - building real community.

Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by ccortes on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:28AM (#26223719)
> Can you point to a legitimate problem that “blockchain” can solve, which can’t be solved with existing tools?

I will never understand this. The vast majority of problems have more than one solution, most of the time is just about solving something in a (much) better way.

If the bar for something to exist is "solve a problem that can't be solved with existing tools" then 99% of startups wouldn't exist.

Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by louwrentius on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:50AM (#26223897)
I think you misinterpret my statement.

Just as you have just a finite set of notes on a piano, you can create infinite music.

And even if IT has a finite set of regular tools like SQL databases, programming languages and protocols, it's the thing you create with that, what counts.

Blockchain is a tool that does nothing better than existing tools.

Blockchain is a solution to a problem nobody has.

Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by ccortes on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:59AM (#26223982)
I don't know if you'd count it as a blockchain solution but I constantly use crypto to send money to my family and it's the best solution that I've found.

And yes, I now about transferwise, paypal, swift, etc. And using crypto is faster and cheaper.

Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by Karunamon on Monday February 22, 2021 @10:14AM (#26225426)
I call maximum shenanigans on "cheaper" unless you're sending large amounts of money.

Bitcoin: ~$25

Ethereum (and all tokens): ~$17

For comparison, to burn that much in fees on Paypal (2.5% + 30c), I'd need to send around 10K.

Crypto is currently pointless for anything other than big transactions, and the unpredictability of the transaction fees, let alone the coin's value, is a big problem.

Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by ccortes on Monday February 22, 2021 @01:55PM (#26228738)
There's more than just bitcoin and ethereum
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by Karunamon on Monday February 22, 2021 @05:22PM (#26231485)
Not that have any kind of mainstream usage.
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by ccortes on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:04PM (#26232305)
They have more than enough to make transactions cheaper than other alternatives. Call it whatever you want.
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by imtringued on Monday February 22, 2021 @09:39AM (#26225011)
What are the tax implications for the receiving side?
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by mirekrusin on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:02AM (#26223521)
System that can't be shut down by governments?
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by louwrentius on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:07AM (#26223556)
You mean that government that just shuts down internet, making your 'system' totally useless?

Yes, right!

You can't fix societal problems with tech.

Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by mirekrusin on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:35AM (#26223766)
Yes you can, access to free information and finance should be a human right. Just like cash can be used by anyone, so electronic cash should be.
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by louwrentius on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:45AM (#26223852)
Cryptocurrencies and blockchain were never really about human rights.

It's all about making a quick buck. If that's at the expense of other people or our environment, who gives a fuck right?

Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by mirekrusin on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @06:38PM (#26244570)
Those crypto tools came from techno-anarchist circles, heavily based on academia research - not much of a quick buck there, more passion for privacy and aversion to government and any form of control. Speculators are great for funding and where is money you'll see scammers quickly as well.
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by dgellow on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:24AM (#26223678)
Something to consider: shutting down the internet is very expensive for a government and is likely to results in social unrest and have a lot of other negative side effects.
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by louwrentius on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:43AM (#26223831)
For first-world countries yes, but we see second and third world countries do it all the time.
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by dgellow on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:49AM (#26223885)
And that damages their reputation, creates social unrest, makes it difficult to do business from there, etc. I just want to say that yes, you can shut down the internet but that's already a quite high bar if that's the only way a government can stop a system.
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by robjan on Monday February 22, 2021 @08:15AM (#26224118)
It seems that the people who need it the most are least likely to gain utility from it.
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by ClumsyPilot on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:33AM (#26223751)
Can you point to a legitimate problem that "whatsapp" solved that could not be solved with existing tools?

Between SMS, MMS, 'normal' calls and Skype, whatsapp added nothing technically new to the world.

Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by sopp on Monday February 22, 2021 @07:52PM (#26232631)
Whatsapp is an app not a technology - the protocols allowibg users to communicate through whatsapp are the real innovation there
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by louwrentius on Monday February 22, 2021 @05:31PM (#26231568)
Whatsapp was cross platform and free.
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by ClumsyPilot on Monday February 22, 2021 @06:36PM (#26232115)
Skype was cross-platform and free too. Also, we are talking technology, their pricing strategy is a different problem.
Re:Ethereum Isn't Fun Anymore by louwrentius on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @05:41PM (#26243961)
No, you have to take in the context and timeframe.

Skype was not a messaging platform that regular users used on their Phone.

iPhone and Android each were their own bubble and required paid expensive SMS messages to talk to each other.

Whatsapp was at least very populair in The Netherlands for this reason alone.

Pricing is important because that proves why it was useful to people. Also: ease of use, based on how Whatsapp works.

We are not talking just technologies but technologies in a context.