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Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by pottertheotter on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:33PM (#26175837)
I had a similar issue with the Wall Street Journal a few years back, and despite having spent the majority of my career working on Wall Street, I’ll never buy a subscription again.

I signed up for a really good deal for 6 months of digital + paper delivery, but my paper always arrived a day or two late, so before my 6 months were up I tried to cancel, but couldn’t figure out a way to do so on their website. I messaged support asking them to not renew my subscription, and told them that the paper always arrived late. They responded back that they were going to give me a free subscription until they could figure out the paper delivery. I should have held firm and cancelled, but it seemed lke they were trying to provide good customer service.

Nothing changed with delivery, and I followed up a few times to see what was going on. I was told they were looking into it.

One day, out of the blue, I received a large bill from them. I called to see what was going on and I was told that my trial was up and since I hadn’t cancelled that it had renewed. A proceeded to tell the about my problems with delivery and that customer service was supposedly working on fixing the problem and not charging me until they could. The person on the phone told me that that’s not possible since they don’t provide same-day delivery to my address. I recounted exactly what had happened, and they basically told me I was a liar, and would not refund the charge because the user agreement says they don’t have to, even though I called within a few hours of the new charge and subscription renewal.

The part that really stung was that I was a PhD student and could get an entire year for less than what they charged me for a month. I’ve never had a company treat me so poorly before.

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by oliwarner on Thursday February 18, 2021 @03:46AM (#26177469)
Incidents like this make me wonder why there isn't an appetite for better consumer rights in the US.

If this had happened in the UK, you'd have the option to pro-actively block the payment, recover it, and legal standing to defend getting your money back.

Letting companies redefine the rights of their customers seems bizarre to me.

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by joncrane on Thursday February 18, 2021 @07:30AM (#26179044)
>Letting companies redefine the rights of their customers seems bizarre to me.

I'm sure it's obvious by now but perhaps it's worth restating:

Those companies have large budgets for contributing to elected officials' campaigns. The individual consumers negatively affected by these practices can't band together as efficiently as the large business on the other side of the abusive behavior.

As long as enough elected officials entertain these businesses in visits, allow them to help write legislation, and accept contributions from them, it won't change.

Also, executive agencies have to put out proposals for new rule making and allow a period of public comment. The business in the sector have entire staffs and/or contract with firms whose job it is to watch these publications and craft intelligent responses backed up by fudged data to "prove" how "damaging" these policies would be to the industry.

The individuals who respond are mostly retired people/activist citizens who can only say "this is a bad idea and I don't like it at all."

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by carstenhag on Thursday February 18, 2021 @03:47PM (#26185278)
But do you think in the rest of the world it's the same thing? In Germany we have good consumer protection laws, even though there of course are lobbyists (or, the old-fashioned name for it, PR people and employees of a company).
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by mfDjB on Thursday February 18, 2021 @04:42AM (#26177864)
Currently in the UK, I had a really bad experience with 3, where I tried to cancel, I was informed that I had my account cancelled and then they kept billing me (for months).

I consulted with some lawyers and they told me since I had only done business on the phone (the only way the company does this business by the way) that was essentially my word against the companies. There was no way to email them and even when I did they refused to confirm or deny any account status unless I called them.

That's not to say consumer rights aren't important, I think America could do better, but I certainly do not feel protected in the UK. It's worth noting that the bulk of my exposure to UK based utility companies or government departments has suffered from similar problems, no easy way to paper trail requests made making these kinds of consumer rights ombudsmans worthless.

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by gambiting on Thursday February 18, 2021 @05:35AM (#26178242)
In the UK as well, that's why you set up a direct debit payment for any subscriptions. That way you can cancel it at any point and the company can't continue taking your payments any more. If they genuienly think you should still be paying them, then they can sue you for the money, which of course they won't over a £9.99/month subscription. Paying with a debit card is a bit of a mistake because the company can just keep charging it - althought that is also solvable by just ringing your bank and asking for a new card with a fresh number.
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by dbetteridge on Thursday February 18, 2021 @07:24AM (#26179007)
Historically I've had good luck emailing/live chatting them stating 'This message confirm xyz, please confirm within X days. Lack of response will be taken as confirmation.'

Keep a record of that and when it comes down to having to make a complaint you can present it to the ombudsman.

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by vinay427 on Thursday February 18, 2021 @04:06AM (#26177595)
This does exist for credit cards in the US. There are guidelines by which credit card issuers must abide by customer requests, and they're seemingly always happy to side with the consumer when it's even somewhat reasonable.

> Letting companies redefine the rights of their customers seems bizarre to me.

Maybe it's just what I was used to, but I think it's far more annoying in many European countries (not sure about the UK but at least the one I live in) where it's harder to return products without specific proof and following strict guidelines, virtually impossible to get a credit or debit card that covers all fees for normal international use, difficult to get a fraud or improper charge on a card statement immediately rescinded, etc.

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by icedchocolate on Thursday February 18, 2021 @04:31AM (#26177777)
Speaking from Australia, we have outstanding customer protection and rights, and no massive hoops or hurdles to go to get it that would be more significant than anything in the US. It’s really much more just. Fraud or improper charges are also easily immediately rescinded if using a credit card. What kind of cover for fees for international use are you talking about?
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by vinay427 on Thursday February 18, 2021 @06:26AM (#26178582)
> Fraud or improper charges are also easily immediately rescinded if using a credit card.

I'm not sure how exactly it compares, but every credit card at least in my lifetime in the US has been bound by these same protections.

> What kind of cover for fees for international use are you talking about?

Sorry, this is more of a tangent that I should have denoted, as it's not specifically related to fraud or consumer rights. At least compared to the major European and Asian countries in which I've traveled or lived in, credit card and bank/debit card offerings in the US are extremely generous in benefits, rewards, fees, etc. I actually still sometimes use my US card in a European country because my US bank offers lower fees than my domestic bank (in the home country) for ATMs, currency exchange, card replacements, etc.

> Speaking from Australia, we have outstanding customer protection and rights, and no massive hoops or hurdles to go to get it that would be more significant than anything in the US.

I'm honestly not sure how this compares to the US or elsewhere as I've never been to Australia. I'm regularly surprised by how inflexible businesses seem in much of continental Europe, however.

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by CaptainZapp on Thursday February 18, 2021 @06:54AM (#26178792)
> At least compared to the major European and Asian countries in which I've traveled or lived in, credit card and bank/debit card offerings in the US are extremely generous in benefits, rewards, fees, etc.

That's true in my experience. It's hard to find a card that doesn't charge ridiculous fees for foreign transactions (even in local currency), for example.

There's the other side of the medal though. Which is that somebody is going to pay for this generosity by the card companies.

Either merchants pay ludicrous fees, which are severely capped in Europe. Or card companies outright rip off the less fortunate members of society by usurious interest rates and fees. Fees, which may be outright criminal[1] if charged in some of the European countries.

[1] That's not hyperbole. For example: Interest rates in Switzerland are capped at 15% annually. If you charge more than that for a loan it's usury, which is part of the criminal code.

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by arp242 on Thursday February 18, 2021 @10:33AM (#26180973)
In my experience consumer rights in the UK isn't all that either. They basically just ignored all the EU consumer protection laws and never enforced them, so companies could do what they want, like add hidden surcharges for example.

Probably still better than US, but that's not saying much.

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by minikites on Thursday February 18, 2021 @09:20AM (#26180055)
There's a huge appetite, it just doesn't matter because corporations have more power than individuals because of how capitalism interacts with democracy.
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by dealforager on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:16AM (#26176172)
I use Privacy.com for this reason and to not worry about my cards getting leaked. I create a card per-subscription and set the monthly limit to exactly the cost of the subscription. When I want to cancel, if it's not easy I just destroy the virtual card.
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by joveian on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:43AM (#26176380)
I was going to subscribe to my local paper but didn't when the subscription form said that a phone number was required and that by subscribing you agree to receive calls and texts about "offers that might interest you". This seems like a horrible tactic in general and even more so when your main product is available for free. If it stops being available for free I'm still not likely to agree to that. No respect == no money from me.
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by gnopgnip on Thursday February 18, 2021 @02:28AM (#26177004)
Cancelling a card and not paying a bill doesn't mean you no longer owe the underlying debt. A real company like the NYT will still pursue collecting the debt
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by byecomputer on Thursday February 18, 2021 @03:58AM (#26177545)
You typically get charged in advance for periodical subscriptions. If the charge doesn't go through, they simply won't send you the paper anymore.
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by kccqzy on Thursday February 18, 2021 @02:39AM (#26177073)
What collection agency wants to collect a $4 bill?
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by ceejayoz on Thursday February 18, 2021 @08:39AM (#26179642)
It’ll be months worth of them, and there are plenty of cheap agencies that will make minimal effort, report to the credit bureaus, and wait for you to come to them begging to get it off because you can’t get a mortgage.
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by hnick on Thursday February 18, 2021 @02:03AM (#26176859)
I'm confused how they make money, the free plan has up to 12 new cards a month which seems like a lot. Even on the lower pro plan the cashback can exceed the $10 per month you pay.
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by dealforager on Thursday February 18, 2021 @02:20AM (#26176955)
I'm not sure but what I've read is that they keep part of the fee that usually goes toward rewards or points in other cards. I don't mind this at all because I think they are providing an amazing and much needed service that I've been wanting for years. Their apps and web extensions are also great. Last time I had to cancel a card because some website got hacked it took me weeks to resolve and change it everywhere I needed. I would happily pay let them have all of the rewards to not go through that again. Sorry if I sound like a shill, I swear I have no relationship with them. I just really like the service.
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by hnick on Thursday February 18, 2021 @03:40AM (#26177441)
It does look great, I'm not a US citizen so can't use it and the banking landscape is very different over there which could be how they make money like you said.
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by PeterisP on Thursday February 18, 2021 @08:52AM (#26179777)
Just as any other card issuer, they should be getting something like 1%-2% (depending on location and merchant type and card type) from all purchases as interchange fee from the merchant. Assuming their processing infrastructure is efficient enough, that should cover all the expenses and allow for some profit even for customers with small turnover.
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by nickthemagicman on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:36AM (#26176327)
I LOVE Privacy.com!!!
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by pmcollins on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:05AM (#26176076)
also had a similar experience with wsj. never again.

and with a new subscription to the economist. tried to cancel a few months ago, mostly because i didn’t like how they would charge my card without warning or an invoice. it was all just super stealth. worst part was you couldn’t cancel online, you were supposed to call. but you couldn’t call either because their phone staff wasn’t working due to covid. so convenient for them. had to file a formal dispute with my card. also, never again.

ironically both free market publications. may the free market flush these awful, consumer hostile companies down the toilet.

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by zippergz on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:54PM (#26176003)
I almost bought a WSJ sub during a recent sale, and decided against it specifically because I checked and it said I'd have to call them to cancel.
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by rrdharan on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:33AM (#26176305)
If you change your address to one in California, they expose the cancel option, because they have to by law:

https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-unsubscribe-easily-from-WSJ-o...

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by jopsen on Thursday February 18, 2021 @03:03AM (#26177239)
The problem is that this is a lack of respect.

They are actively trying to scam me. Why would I want to be a "customer"?

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by passtheglass on Thursday February 18, 2021 @07:00AM (#26178835)
I agree, it's particularly egregious that they spent the extra development time and money to only have this feature in locales where they are legally forced to.
Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by Trias11 on Thursday February 18, 2021 @12:09AM (#26176117)
Same with me.

First time i bought it via Amazon Prime, when it was available and with Amazon i could cancel stuff directly via Amazon at any time, bypassing WSJ minefields.

Then WSJ got smart and start selling it directly in hope to force subscribers to go through their sales jerks in case they want to cancel.

This made me to turn away from WSJ for good.

Re:Before buying a NYT subscription, here's what it'll take ... by annexrichmond on Wednesday February 17, 2021 @11:47PM (#26175945)
I was able to (temporarily) cancel my WSJ subscription with a couple clicks last year, so looks like they've improved on that front.