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Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by WalterBright on Monday February 15, 2021 @05:29AM (#26141290)
Just to be blunt, here are wrong answers:

1. make the root password unguessable and change it often

2. background check employees

3. audit trusted vendor's security procedures

4. install sprinklers (!)

5. jam all USB ports with glue

6. train CEO on laptop security protocol

Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by mindcrime on Monday February 15, 2021 @08:50AM (#26142705)
4. install sprinklers (!)

Yes, water based sprinklers are not the best choice for inside the server-room proper. But that doesn't mean you can't have other automated fire suppression systems. In the days of yore Halon systems were mostly used for this particular application. Halon has some issues though and has mostly been banned / replaced with cleaner alternatives. These days you see things like FM-200 used for fire suppression in these kinds of applications.

All of that said, speaking as a former firefighter, I'd take a water based sprinkler over nothing, even in that setting. Why? Because at the end of the day, human life is more valuable than a data-center full of computers and data, and if stopping a fire early saves even one life, but ruins a room full of computers, that's an acceptable tradeoff. And of course sprinklers are absolutely invaluable outside of the server-room. I don't have all the numbers memorized now, but to summarize in a succinct form, "sprinklers are wildly effective at preventing incipient stage fires from growing large, and at saving lives and property."

And as @WalterBright continues to say below - you are storing backups off-site, right? And you have a DR data-center on another continent that can be spun up in a matter of minutes by toggling a load-balancer or DNS setting somewhere, right?

Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by WalterBright on Monday February 15, 2021 @05:24PM (#26148345)
I totally am sold on fire sprinklers. They're installed in my house. Yeah, they'll wreck the room they come on in, but will save the rest of the house. I also read that, in the US, nobody ever died from fire in a building where there were sprinklers that were not disabled.

Even counting 9-11, as the plane crash cut the water pipes.

But still, relying on sprinklers to save your IT business is a bad idea. Offsite backups are needed.

Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by mindcrime on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @08:28AM (#26153622)
But still, relying on sprinklers to save your IT business is a bad idea. Offsite backups are needed.

Yep, totally agreed. Resiliency comes from having offsite backups, cold/warm standby sites, testing your backups and ability to switch to the DR site, etc. The sprinklers are mainly about saving human lives.

Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by dathinab on Monday February 15, 2021 @07:29AM (#26142083)
> install sprinklers (!)

Sure you install sprinklers in a data center to sprinkle water on servers and other electric devices in a context where there might or might not be broken or other wise un-isolated wires due to the fire...

What you can use instead is to flood the room with CO2 to suffocate the fire.

The problem with that is that it's also deadly to humans.

Still e.g. for rooms with long term data storage it's not uncommon to have measurements like that.

Besides that there are docent of other reasons why a data center might go down (temporary).

So the better answer is make sure you system is distributed over multiple data center, i.e. eliminated any single point of failure.

Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by tartoran on Monday February 15, 2021 @08:20AM (#26142451)
Installing sprinklers in the datacenter is probably a bad idea. But around it it may pay off, the fire may originate outside the datacenter. Inside the datacenter it’s be great to have some phisical separation so not all is lost in case of a fire and an extinguisher or whatnot can be used on the burning component without effecting the whole system. Also installing heat sensors and monitoring those may prevent a disaster. Installing partitions or building separated server rooms could also help.
Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by mindcrime on Monday February 15, 2021 @08:59AM (#26142796)
Yes, from a fire safety standpoint, more partitions in the building are generally a good thing, especially when they consist of actual rated fire-resistant firewalls (physical firewalls not the "iptables" kind). It's amazing just how effective a firewall can be. I've been to structure fires before where you can basically say in the aftermath "everything on the 'fire' side of the firewall is rubble now, and everything on the other side is completely (or almost completely) intact". Of course you can still get some smoke and water damage, and even a good firewall can be breached if the fire burns long enough. But generally speaking, they help a lot.

And even a closed door in a residential building can slow things down enough to make the difference between life and death. This is why the fire service encourages people to sleep with their bedroom doors closed and to have a smoke detector near said bedroom door.

The downside to a heavily partitioned building, especially a very large building, is that it may become a maze that is hard to exit, and lots of doors between different areas slightly increase the risk that somebody will have a brain-fart and lock/chain doors that should never be locked, or otherwise do something that effectively traps people inside. Note to everybody: never chain/lock/barricade a door that must be used to exit a building in an emergency, in such a way that it can't be opened from the inside.

Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by WalterBright on Monday February 15, 2021 @05:34PM (#26148471)
Keep a fire axe under the bed to create a new doorway as necessary :-)
Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by imglorp on Monday February 15, 2021 @09:47AM (#26143221)
Plus in a pinch, critical data can be recovered from wet hard drives and SSDs (say if it didn't make it to offsite backup yet). Melted hard drives and SSDs, no.
Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by alickz on Monday February 15, 2021 @06:14AM (#26141600)
what are some right answers?
Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by WalterBright on Monday February 15, 2021 @06:26AM (#26141682)
I'm not a security professional, but I'll spend a couple minutes and make a stab at it:

1. don't store everything on the machine(s) accessible via that root password

2. don't allow any employee unfettered access to everything

3. don't allow one piece of software to have access to everything

4. do not store backups in the server room, or even in the same building

5. buy computers that do not have USB support in any form

6. full disk encryption on laptop. Minimize sensitive data on laptop. Use smallest capacity disk drives on laptop. Don't allow any laptops to have access to secure network. Issue hardwired desktops to employees. No wifi to secure network.

Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by majkinetor on Monday February 15, 2021 @06:38AM (#26141773)
However, with each new thing resources needed to implement and operate go up to the point when it is not feasible - money, people, time ...
Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by WalterBright on Monday February 15, 2021 @06:43AM (#26141804)
It's always a tradeoff between how much to spend on security vs how much a breach is going to cost you. But if you are going to spend it on security, spend it on things that are more likely to work, rather than on impossible things.
Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by waihtis on Monday February 15, 2021 @07:13AM (#26141993)
From a risk perspective you're advocating bundling all of your eggs in one basket - perfect fault-tolerance & prevention - whilst that is actually a system nobody has built in the history of computing.

Neither detection or prevention can be perfect like nothing human-designed, but rather detection should be used to hedge yourself in situations where prevention fails.

Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by ncallaway on Monday February 15, 2021 @12:02PM (#26144532)
It seems to me that they are doing the exact opposite of what you claim they are doing.

None of the mitigations that were described were aimed at preventing a breach or disaster. Instead all were designed to mitigate the damage that happens when a breach occurs.

Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by waihtis on Monday February 15, 2021 @12:18PM (#26144720)
I'm not sure what you're referring to, but my comment is to the person advocating fault-tolerant systems, segmentation and the other things as panaceas to the situation.

These are not new concepts in the security industry. In fact very much of the opposite; manifestations of them like zero trust have been one of the main buzzwords for the last ten years or so in the cyber industry.

It's a different thing sketching something on paper and how it actually works when trying to apply it into the chaotic mass corporate IT usually is. I work in this industry and talk to a lot of corporations from all over the globe about their security postures. I don't see a huge amount of companies who have the resource to pull off a well segmented environment. Truth is it is expensive, quite complex to pull off, potentially disrupts business and it's still just an internal security cost that when you present it to your boss they will ask "why are we spending all that money on firewalls then?"

Anyhow the point was that if you build your security posture on the assumption that you can successfully lock everything down and you don't need to do any monitoring internally, you're setting yourself up for that massive disruption when the stars align for the attacker and they get a free roam environment in your internals. And it happens very often, as we can see.

Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by WalterBright on Monday February 15, 2021 @05:43PM (#26148573)
I did not suggest not doing monitoring internally, I suggested not relying on internal monitors. Because the SolarWinds hack had gone undetected on the security company's own servers and ran rampant for (weeks?) before it was detected.

As reported on "60 Minutes" yesterday.

The security company did not compartmentalize their own system. They relied on monitoring, which failed.

Furthermore, it was said on the segment that firmware on the hardware can be infected, so reinstalling the system software won't get rid of it. The obvious solution to that is to put the firmware in ROMs, so it cannot be electrically reprogrammed. But nobody does that.

Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by majkinetor on Monday February 15, 2021 @12:30PM (#26144850)
Very nicely put. Can't agree more.
Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by easton on Monday February 15, 2021 @12:15PM (#26144702)
I'm always curious about solutions to 2, so what does unfettered mean in this instance? Audited? Someone always needs root or Domain Admin or whatever to get the company out of a mess, so do we just heavily audit those accounts and hope they aren't a enemy agent from Pepsi trying to get our secret formula?
Re:SolarWinds hack was 'largest and most sophisticated attac... by throwawayboise on Monday February 15, 2021 @02:08PM (#26145993)
People don't need root access all the time. You can construct a system whereby elevated access is granted as needed with the approval of another person or persons. Logged and time- or task-limited of course.

Inconvenient? Yes. But sometimes appropriate.