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Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by justapassenger on Sunday February 14, 2021 @10:55AM (#26133364)
> Comp isn't a reward for good behaviour unless you are a prisoner begging guards for privileges or an animal doing tricks for treats - it's earned from value.

Comp is a retention mechanism that’s determined by supply and demand. Not a single reasonable company will be willing to pay you more that’s bare minimum to keep you to stay. Hiring isn’t about rewarding workers based on the value they provide, it’s about optimizing costs so you can maximize profits.

While location based term is a BS term, it is very real market mechanism. In your local market there’s less non remote companies than in high cost of living areas, that are willing to compete for you, so your price point is lower.

Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by wpietri on Sunday February 14, 2021 @01:40PM (#26134878)
> Not a single reasonable company will be willing to pay you more that’s bare minimum to keep you to stay.

That's definitely not true. Indeed, I think that's a pretty bad way to think about comp, leading to an adversarial employer/employee relationship.

As examples, consider Netflix, which is widely known for paying above market, or Gravity Payments, which changed their minimum pay to $70k/year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_Payments

I'm just about to post 3 new positions, and I have no interest in squeezing people on cash comp. I want people who are happy, relaxed, and feel like they're being treated well. And I also want a fair salary structure. Could I pressure bad negotiators and naive people and pay less? Absolutely. Will I? Fuck no. Maximizing shareholder value has been called "the world's dumbest idea". I wouldn't go that far, but it's certainly up there.

Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by xyzelement on Sunday February 14, 2021 @06:49PM (#26137444)
>> As examples, consider Netflix, which is widely known for paying above market

That's not a counterexample of what the post you're replying to is talking about. Netflix feels they need to "overpay" to get the caliber of talent they want, and also to make it harder for it to be tempted to leave. At the end of the day it's what they feel to be the "bare minimum to keep you to stay" for the kind of people they want.

>> I want people who are happy, relaxed, and feel like they're being treated well.

Right, same thing. You want that because that's what strong employees demand and is your strategy for getting sustainable quality output out of them. If you were just a good guy, you'd pay MORE than that :)

Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by wpietri on Monday February 15, 2021 @04:06PM (#26147395)
I agree with you on Netflix; I have been corrected by you and others. But I disagree with you on the latter. In practice people who believe it's important to pay the "bare minimum to keep you to stay" act very differently.
Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by justapassenger on Sunday February 14, 2021 @02:21PM (#26135302)
Netflix is skewing hiring heavily towards very senior people, and is paying all cash, no stock. For the level of skills, total compensation you get from them is pretty much in line with peer big tech in Bay Area market.

You can call maximizing profits maximizing shareholder value, and often they’re aligned. But it’s how businesses were always designed to work, long before stock markets. Is it fair? Most likely not, but it’s business 101, same as me writing reliable production code is engineering 101.

Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by wpietri on Sunday February 14, 2021 @06:10PM (#26137193)
> But it’s how businesses were always designed to work

[citation needed]

As far as I can tell, that's a modern, MBA-ish fantasy about the nature of business. I have small business owners in my family going back generations. Maximizing profit was not the goal. It was making a living and being part of a community. This is definitely not uncommon. See, for example, the writings of the late economist Alison Snow Jones: https://www.interfluidity.com/v2/1095.html

Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by Aeolun on Sunday February 14, 2021 @05:43PM (#26136989)
Businesses are not necessarily designed to maximize profits. In theory they’re designed to provide a comfortable lifestyle for the owner and keep them busy.

If that involves maximizing profits, then great, but if the owner enjoys doing work with happy, un-stressed people more than he does a few humdred extra dollars in his pocket, it’s clearly not (only) about optimizing profits.

Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by jhardy54 on Sunday February 14, 2021 @06:48PM (#26137437)
> But it’s how businesses were always designed to work

Who taught you this? If there's a specific historian pushing this narrative I'd love to know who it is, because on the surface this claim sounds absolutely outlandish.

Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by jiveturkey on Sunday February 14, 2021 @03:00PM (#26135685)
gravity also famously walked that back. netflix may be famous for paying above market but actually they pay market.
Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by ZephyrBlu on Sunday February 14, 2021 @03:50PM (#26136142)
Can you link or point me to a source about Gravity Payments walking that back? I can't find anything about it.
Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by wpietri on Sunday February 14, 2021 @06:06PM (#26137155)
Yeah, I don't think that's true. The most recent story I can find about them does involve pay cuts, but they're voluntary and temporary as a way of dealing with the pandemic: https://www.geekwire.com/2020/gravity-payments-employees-vol...
Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by jiveturkey on Monday February 15, 2021 @03:09PM (#26146696)
mea culpa! I was thinking about a different company, a smallish law or other professional services company, whose name I don't recall. It wasn't a high minimum wage, rather everyone top to bottom was paid exactly the same amount. was
Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by Tempest1981 on Sunday February 14, 2021 @12:10PM (#26134014)
Yes, an easy way to understand this is to imagine yourself living where costs are low, and pay is adequate. Now you interview for a job that requires you to relocate to London or San Francisco. You wouldn't accept the offer unless the pay was much higher.

Feels like this reasoning changes for those starting in San Francisco or London, looking to relocate?

Re:“Location-Based Pay” – Who are we to complain? by tharkun__ on Sunday February 14, 2021 @01:15PM (#26134632)
Companies probably like people moving from the middle of nowhere to SF or London better though. Especially young kids will probably undervalue themselves. They may know or figure out that you gotta ask for more salary in those areas but they might not know how much exactly they need to ask for and/or go down too much when HR starts their spiel.

Hopefully they've learned enough about how much the company values them and how much it cares about them, that they don't just accept a relocation and whatever salary their company gives them. I'm not too hopeful though, given what working conditions they already accept while living in SF (or wherever).