News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by lmkg on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @10:54AM (#26090830)
My issue with it is even more fundamental than this: it is structurally impossible for Proof of Work to become more efficient. If you find a more energy-efficient way to mine, the correct decision is not to reduce your energy usage, but rather to use the same amount of energy to compute more hashes.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by panarky on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @11:49AM (#26091563)
The energy-per-transaction ratio is only relevant if the utility of Bitcoin is to compete with Visa to process transactions.

However, if the ultimate utility of Bitcoin is to store trillions of dollars of value, transmit it into the future, across borders, quickly, pseudonymously, and without capital controls from coercive and corrupt governments, then energy-per-transaction is an inappropriate metric.

Bitcoin is the only asset with these properties, and it doesn't need many transactions to do what it does best.

If you find you're angry about Bitcoin's energy usage but you're not even more angry about the energy wasted by industries and technologies that have much less social utility, then maybe it's not the wasted energy that you're angry about after all.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by mint2 on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @12:01PM (#26091750)
> without capital controls from coercive and corrupt governments

And conversely too! letting corrupt governments and corporations transfer money with ease!

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by panarky on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @01:41PM (#26093096)
That's always the problem with freedom, it works for good guys and bad guys alike.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by toyg on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @12:12PM (#26091903)
Let's not forget druglords, illegal arms dealers, hitmen...
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by meowkit on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @12:24PM (#26092054)
Paging argument from 2010...

You would use Monero or physical cash for those activities.

Bitcoin is much easier to trace once you have a lead.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by toyg on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @04:58PM (#26095359)
It's just a tradeoff between opsec and ease of use. Monero is harder to turn back into cash, precisely because it carries a worse reputation.

Note that my argument was pro btc - I can see underground demand sustaining its price in the long run.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by Solvitieg on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @12:31PM (#26092166)
Because you definitely can't do that with fiat...

This is such an old, tired take.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by bayesian_horse on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @12:59PM (#26092563)
No, you really can't do that easily and sometimes at all with "fiat". Which is why "money laundering" is a thing. Or drug cartels having the problem to stash or move hundreds of thousands of small dollar bills over North and South American borders.

A somewhat trustworthy state having control over or transparency into money transfers generally is a very good thing. If your government isn't trustworthy enough, you have bigger problems than the currency.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by toyg on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @05:01PM (#26095391)
When it comes to truth, old != bad. The oldest profession is still around, for example, because demand will always be there.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by TomVDB on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @12:05PM (#26091824)
There are industries with less social utility than Bitcoin?
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by paulgb on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @01:04PM (#26092629)
> However, if the ultimate utility of Bitcoin is to store trillions of dollars of value, [...] then energy-per-transaction is an inappropriate metric.

The amount of energy used in equilibrium in Bitcoin mining is proportional to the price of Bitcoin (between halvings and holding the fraction of total mining costs spent on energy constant). If the price of Bitcoin rose enough that it had a 2TN market cap tomorrow, miners would have incentives to burn 3-4x more energy.

I agree that transaction-based accounting is flawed, but it doesn’t make the problem go away.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by aeternum on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @11:36AM (#26091360)
By computing more hashes, you raise the difficulty for everyone else mining so you do ultimately push out the less efficient miners.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by rspeele on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @01:32PM (#26092995)
That's efficient if you define efficiency as hashes computed per watt. That's the metric by which less-efficient miners are driven out.

However, this does nothing for the overall energy efficiency of Bitcoin, which could be defined as transactions processed per gigawatt. If energy gets cheaper, that number only gets smaller.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by lxgr on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @01:25PM (#26092914)
The problem is that there is, by definition, economic incentive to spend an amount of electric energy equal to the economic value of transaction confirmation to all protocol participants.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by meow112012 on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @12:04PM (#26091800)
If someone has money and power already, they can take a better chance to get more bitcoin. How about the other guys and the other guys ... 10/20 years later?