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Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by sz4kerto on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:03AM (#26089209)
> In times of truly global trouble, nobody will accept bitcoins as payment for bread.

That is true for gold as well. (Ofc not 'nobody', just 'almost nobody'.)

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by XorNot on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:23AM (#26089475)
This is why there is no gold standard anymore. Like, this right here is the exact reason: because collectively it's apparent gold is not worth much to anyone in a pinch. So why bother trading with it as a proxy for your nation-state's goods and services output?

Interestingly, I went and looked up what the price of gold would actually be if it was solely used for industrial processes, and it's hard to actually figure out: it's speculated on a lot, but world gold demand in 2019 was 4355.7t. Of that, 48.5% was for the jewelery industry, and 7.48% for technology - the rest accounted for by investment. So industrially world demand for gold for productive or decorative uses is about 2439.2 tons (as of 2019), whereas mining production in that year was about 3,300 tons.

So about 45% of world gold demand is essentially from financial speculators. To figure out pricing you'd have to really get into the current mining economics for technological use...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/299609/gold-demand-by-in... https://www.statista.com/statistics/264628/world-mine-produc... https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold-supply

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by ChuckNorris89 on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:18AM (#26089418)
>That is true for gold as well.

Not even close. Gold is a tangible psychical asset, a finite resource on Earth that can not only make valuables you can wear or leave as heirloom but is also a really good heat-reflector and electricity conductor needed in anything from semiconductors and precision electronics to supercars and satellites. Without it, the global electronics industry would suffer terribly.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by _alex_ on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:24AM (#26089494)
Gold's market cap isn't driven by industrial use.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by epx on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:24AM (#26089496)
+1, lots of things have been manufactured with gold in the past and would go back to gold if it got any cheaper.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by ForHackernews on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:07AM (#26089267)
Is this really true historically? Obviously these are biased goldbugs, but there are at least some anecdotes that suggest https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/ronan-manly/the-power-of-g...

It seems more likely that people conflict zones would be happy to accept gold (with the assumption it will be valuable in the future/in more stable areas) than bitcoins that require electricity, stable internet and tons of disk space.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by XorNot on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:29AM (#26089562)
Conflict zones are generally aware that there are non-conflict zones. The existence of the first world, and detailed knowledge of it's demands, means people know to collect assets that will be valued there.

The problem with Bitcoin is it's not a physical thing at the end of the day: nobody mints jewellery out of bitcoin.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by auggierose on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:05AM (#26089230)
Gold makes a nice filling for your teeth, if you like that look.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by fogihujy on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:21AM (#26089463)
It also has industrial applications, not to mention that it's being used for jewellery.

A golden chain with a gold-plated USB key containing a Bitcoin wallet might have a considerable bling factor though. :)

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by burade on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:16AM (#26089388)
Gold is a real thing that has value though. Bitcoin literally stops existing if you stop believing in it.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by tarsinge on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:53AM (#26089902)
> Bitcoin literally stops existing if you stop believing in it.

That is the case for countless things. Is a corporation a real thing or a belief? Where is the physical entity Facebook or the physical entity Apple? Is it the people working for them? Their logo? Their contracts? It's all that and a collective belief in an abstract entity. That's true for fiat or states too, even if that belief can be enforced through e.g. army, that doesn't change the fact that's is a collective belief in something that has no material reality.

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by throwaway3699 on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:27AM (#26089538)
So does fiat.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by iagovar on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @09:49AM (#26089829)
But fiat has taxes, and state-backed violence and jails.

If your state demands your taxes be paid in FIAT, no matter what you wan't, you'll be paying in FIAT (or fined, or in jail, or depending on the circunstances maybe dead).

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by rglullis on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:41AM (#26100139)
Say someone wealthy wants to escape the taxman and spends all their fiat buying things that "have value as long as people believe it has value", like land, stocks, jewelry, art works, antique cars.

When the taxman comes knocking on their door, do you think this person will escape by saying "sorry, I don't have fiat available to pay for the taxes, come back next year!"? No, the taxman will respond by either seizing their assets or forcing the person to liquidate into fiat.

What makes Bitcoin (or crypto) different in that regard?

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by CRConrad on Friday February 12, 2021 @11:04AM (#26115090)
What's with the capitals? The "fiat" in "fiat money" is neither an acronym nor an Italian automobile manufacturer. (The Italian automobile manufacturer, OTOH, is an acronym, just like "OTOH". One stands for "on the other hand"; the other for "Fabricca Italiana de Automobili, Torino".)
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by lottin on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @10:20AM (#26090288)
Bitcoin is fiat. It's not backed by a commodity.
Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by chii on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @07:19PM (#26096662)
that's a stretch of what fiat means. Fiat backing is not just the belief in the backer's ability to back it. Fiat specifically requires government/authority.

bitcoin acts more like a commodity than fiat. Bitcoin is backed by the laws of mathematics, rather than laws of nature (which is the case for gold).

Re:Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index by lottin on Thursday February 11, 2021 @01:19AM (#26098802)
Fiat does not require a government or authority. Fiat money simply means it's not commodity money. Commodity money means the money is backed by a commodity, i.e. the issuer promises to redeem the notes for a certain quantity of a commodity.

Your claim that bitcoin is not fiat because it's backed by the laws of mathematics makes as much sense as claiming that the dollar is not fiat because it's backed by the printing press. This is not what 'backed' means in the context of money.