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Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by StavrosK on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @06:25PM (#26083907)
> one of the many reasons why the monarchy should be abolished.

Doesn't that just shift corruption to the next party? I don't see why logically switching the ruling party would abolish corruption. It might even increase it.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by deepsun on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @06:33PM (#26083983)
Speaking from a very corrupt eastern european country -- practice shows that each change of power lessens corruption somewhat -- who knows what next leaders will dig out, better stay safe. The longer same functioneers stay in power, the deeper is corruption.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by type0 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @06:58PM (#26084207)
That's no good, in the Soviet Union corruption only lasted for 5 years until it was replaced by the new one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-year_plans_for_the_nation...
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by LudwigNagasena on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:03PM (#26084241)
What are you talking about? The USSR was ruled by the same party its whole existence.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by type0 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:43PM (#26084516)
I am talking about this thing called joke. Bureaucratic corruption (outside the party) did change somewhat for 5 years at the time.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by LudwigNagasena on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:20PM (#26085096)
But plans were made by the same people...
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by StavrosK on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @06:37PM (#26084013)
Hey neighbour! Our lot aren't deterred, each government is about as corrupt as the last...
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by Barrin92 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @06:56PM (#26084185)
there's never a guarantee that anyone isn't corrupt, but switching from an opaque, land-owning monarchy to something like the German presidency which has the same function (mostly symbolic, but has some emergency powers), at least gives clear transparent procedures, is accountable to the public in formal ways, draws a regular salary, and isn't living off inherited wealth.

What exactly is the justification for having those tasks, if they're deemed necessary, executed by some hereditary, secretive, uber-wealthy family rather than by someone who is actually a civil servant?

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by lmm on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:46PM (#26085240)
> What exactly is the justification for having those tasks, if they're deemed necessary, executed by some hereditary, secretive, uber-wealthy family rather than by someone who is actually a civil servant?

The easiest ways to corrupt someone are offering them wealth, opportunities for their children, or a popular reputation; the royals are relatively immune to all of those.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by akiselev on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @02:40AM (#26086534)
> offering them wealth, opportunities for their children, or a popular reputation

The government literally pays them and promotes them as a symbol of the nation - how is that not offering them "wealth, opportunities for their children, or a popular reputation"?

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by lmm on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @07:47AM (#26088392)
The point is that they have those things already, so it's harder for a would-be corrupter to tempt them that way.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by Consultant32452 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:27PM (#26084400)
Monarchy is superior to democracy in a very important way. When a monarch sends you off to die in war, the monarch is spending their own resources: you. And therefore the monarch's own wealth and power is at stake. In a democracy the president sends you off to die at no cost to themselves and only really strands to gain from the kickbacks.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by xfer on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @10:21PM (#26085407)
> And therefore the monarch's own wealth and power is at stake.

They have a tolerance of how much resource can be wasted. President's kickback isn't worth anything when the resource wasted can actually cause problem for the nation(Only at this point the monarch will start paying attention). So i am pretty sure they both are similar in this context.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by Consultant32452 on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @12:06AM (#26085908)
The President is not the nation, and therefore problems for the nation are not problems for the President. It doesn't matter how much resource the President wastes, it doesn't impact their bottom line. This is especially true in democracies with term limits where the Presidential power has a known end, but the President's personal wealth does not.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by lotsofpulp on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:41PM (#26084493)
In a proper democracy, a group of elected officials convene and then give permission to the president to send you off to die.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by Consultant32452 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:43PM (#26084515)
That group of elected officials is still spending your life to enrich themselves at no personal risk. By nature of the monarch owning you and the country, if the country loses the monarch loses.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by michaelmrose on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @11:36PM (#26085784)
This doesn't appear to be true at any time in history for a plethora of monarchies. Do you have anything to support your argument save for your well articulated but poorly reasoned thought process?
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by Consultant32452 on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @11:53PM (#26085853)
It's axiomatic of monarchy, not a thought process or reasoned argument. If the monarch owns all the wealth in the country, then if the wealth of the country goes down, the wealth of the monarch goes down. If the laborers die, if the resources are mismanaged, etc. then the monarch's wealth and power diminishes (because the laborer's lives and the resources are the monarch's wealth). A monarch may choose to spend their wealth (including your life) to take over more territory, but they are spending their own wealth to achieve that goal.

This is categorically different from a democracy where the leadership's wealth is separated from the nation's. If the laborers die, the President is not impacted in the least. A President may choose to spend your life and money to take over new territory and increase their power, but they are spending your wealth to do it, not their own. If the resources are mismanaged you are harmed, not the President.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by michaelmrose on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @02:27AM (#26086470)
Firstly you are pretending that people are rational actors. This isn't necessarily true of people in aggregate and its sure as hell not true of individuals who have many wildly divergent understandings of the world, the probable end results of different actions, and desired outcomes including but not limited to aggregate wealth.

Next this doesn't even work out if we replace the monarch with an automaton which faithfully executes economic theory.

A monarch of 100M people might spend 10,000 people for some end that on net increases his wealth whereas a president of 100M might find the rest of the people so appalled at the 10k corpses that they vote him out of office.

If you look at how monarchs have actually and in fact spent the blood of their people historically we wouldn't have to argue theory. Throughout history monarchies have spent their people liberally in proportion to their ability to do so. You can look at recent history at a bunch of nations that are still technically monarchies you will note that their period of moderation directly coincides with the waning power of the very actor you claim somehow serves to moderate the state.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by Consultant32452 on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @08:34AM (#26088777)
I only spoke to the inherent incentives and risks for each type of leader: monarch and President. The rest of that stuff you filled in on your own.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by michaelmrose on Thursday February 11, 2021 @01:51AM (#26098952)
The rest of what I filled in on my own is reality. The motivations you propose constitute a limited theory on how leaders of nations behave. Comparing your theory to thousands of years of actuality ought to cause a rational actor to conclude your theory is at best so incomplete as to be useless and at worst completely wrong.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by Consultant32452 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @09:43AM (#26101931)
You appear to have imagined that I suggested there is one and only one narrow motivation for Presidents/monarchists regarding their own personal wealth and that single narrow motivation would be the only thing impacting their behavior. I made no such suggestion. Therefore all of your extrapolations are invalid.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by michaelmrose on Friday February 12, 2021 @03:46AM (#26111768)
> Monarchy is superior to democracy in a very important way. When a monarch sends you off to die in war, the monarch is spending their own resources: you. And therefore the monarch's own wealth and power is at stake. In a democracy the president sends you off to die at no cost to themselves and only really strands to gain from the kickbacks.

This understanding is completely outside of actual reality. The statement "Monarchy is superior to democracy in a very important way" goes on to explain why you believe the monarch has a greater incentive to avoid wasting the lives of his citizens. This isn't even close to true. A monarch who loses 1% of his "wealth" in the form of dead people still has the other 99%. A President can lose his job, his wealth, and his personal power for less.

A president is incentivized not to put upon the people more than they can bear with the understanding that all they have to do to be rid of him is check a different box next go round. A monarch faces the same risk but only if the anguish of the people is enough for them to spend copious amounts of their own blood in violent revolution.

This difference in resistance is the dominant difference in motivation NOT a proprietary feeling towards a kings subjects. This is well born out by an ocean of blood spilled foolishly by monarchies through history. I don't misunderstand you. I don't think you have properly understood history.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by mhh__ on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:54PM (#26084576)
Because currently we have a ruling party, and the queen can interfere before that ruling party tables a bill to parliament.

Also, the Monarchy is effectively a mechanism for it's powers to be controlled by ministers, this means parliament can and has been effectively shut down temporarily to avoid debate at the whim of Government Ministers against the will of parliament itself.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by osrec on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @06:45PM (#26084092)
Perhaps, but let's sort the problem at hand first?

The monarchy in the UK only seems to benefit themselves and tabloid newspapers. While the Queen has been a dutiful monarch (whos work ethic I happen to respect), the rest of her family seem pretty terrible with their crazy shenanigans.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by pmoriarty on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @06:51PM (#26084139)
"the Queen has been a dutiful monarch (whos work ethic I happen to respect)"

What work does the Queen actually do?

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by tomcam on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:18PM (#26084344)
She is the head of state, a job for which the president of the USA has to pull double duty while also being the executive. It is an incredibly tedious job, requiring her to go to endless factory openings funerals, and so on. She doesn’t really have to do those things, but she has done them dutifully for 75 years or so. As far as I’m concerned it’s amazing and probably does a measurable amount to contribute to the stability of the country. Can’t prove it, of course.

As an American citizen it is why I don’t mind presidents that I don’t like have a large secret service revenue, fat salary, and so forth both during and after their presidency.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by tomcam on Wednesday February 10, 2021 @08:33AM (#26088769)
EDIT: "secret service retinue", not "...revenue"
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by osrec on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:37PM (#26084475)
I don't know exactly what she does, but she always turns up and doesn't mess around or offend people, unlike the rest of her family.

She's like a grandma the nation respects, even though you suspect there might be a sinister side to her.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by philistine on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:13PM (#26084313)
That’s what the article at play here discovered: she makes sure no law can ever touch her pot of gold. Oh and god forbid any law force them to use a seatbelt.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by foldr on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @07:20PM (#26084361)
More than most women her age, I think it’s fair to say. If the Queen was lazy she could have abdicated two decades ago with some justification.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by crumbshot on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @06:34PM (#26083987)
Corruption amongst other members of the upper and ruling classes is not a good reason to avoid dealing with the most undemocratic of them all.

Also, the wider principle is that there shouldn't be an untouchable hereditary ruling class at all. It's an absolute nonsense.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by zepto on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @08:48PM (#26084933)
Most countries have a hereditary ruling class. At least with the Royal Family, you know who they are.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by crumbshot on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @08:57PM (#26084982)
Indeed, and they should all be targeted for removal.

One of the key problems in many human societies is that most of the wealth and power ends up concentrated in the hands of the undeserving few, who use it to further enrich themselves and their families, at the expense of everyone else.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by zepto on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:27PM (#26085133)
Another key problem is that every now and then someone declares themselves more deserving than the current few who are in power and lines them up against a wall to be shot by a death squad.
Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by crumbshot on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:31PM (#26085147)
I'm not advocating for that, if that's what you're implying.

"Targeted for removal" wasn't intended as a euphemism for death squads or anything like that.

Re:The Queen has more power over British law than we thought by zepto on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @09:44PM (#26085227)
A helpful clarification.