One thing that definitely helps me is to have a routine for bedtime. A hot shower, bed preheated in winter (heated underblanket), keeping the room cold and reading a book while lying in bed. I typically pick technical material as it's less likely to keep me up all night with an engrossing story. At some point, I notice that the mind is tired and I am able to gather words from the page but not comprehend the material. I then set the book aside, turn off the bedlamp and try to sleep. Usually, this is sufficient and I fall asleep in no time. Some people just fall asleep while reading. For me, it's reading. For a friend of mine, it's watching a TV show. He has something playing on the computer or TV and falls asleep while watching it.

The idea is to get the body relaxed (hot shower in my case) and then do something (devoid of stress) that keeps ones mind off the hustle and bustle of one's day.

Also, going to bed and rising at (roughly) the same time everyday will also get the body and the mind trained to be sleepy at that time and it'll get easier to fall asleep.

EDIT: I naturally tend to drift to a nocturnal routine if left to my own inclinations. The hardest part of what I wrote above is just pulling myself away from the day to go to bed at what most would consider a reasonable hour. If you can not convince yourself that sleep is important and commit to maintaining discipline in your sleep/wake routine, no "technique", "advice" or "substance" will be effective on the long run.

From time to time I also add a 5-minute meditation to the routine and it works quite well for me.

Then after closing my eyes I go through the stuff I just read (to avoid getting stressed out over real-life stuff), and after a while will have one or more thoughts that make no sense.

That’s the sign that falling asleep will happen very soon. From there on I don’t know what happens next.

Feeling guilty and the victim mindset are different sides of the same coin here. Neither is productive.

I'm often reminding of the saying, "All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."

Clearly there are two sides and somewhere in the middle is ideal. Question is, where do you feel that middle is?

From two comments, it is hard to see whether your usage of "you" is rhetorical or whether you mean me in particular.

The easy case is the latter and for that I'll say that, I would be rather surprised if you had an accurate idea of what kind of a life I led and how much suffering is in my day-to-day life.

Let's go to the other instance, where you are speaking in general using the rhetorical "you". Here, I agree that there is a lot of suffering in this world. I'll take a specific case of it - hunger. There are a lot of hungry people in this world: even children dying of starvation. We have only considered humans so far. Imagine a little kitten somewhere abandoned by his mother (or just lost) and crying out in hunger (I've found a few like this). The question then arises: How can you eat any meal in peace? Does anyone have a right to eat in peace as long as involuntary hunger exists? Are they "permitted" to eat without guilt or shame? What if one eats a sandwich? What if it is rice? What if it is rice and chicken? What if it's an ice-cream? What if it's chocolate fondue? What if it's a king's feast?

I was unable to see any other natural end to that line of reasoning except a monastic life. Does that mean that when a butcher buys ice-cream for his little daughter, this act should in fact give them both guilt and shame instead of joy? This is not a simple matter if you were to think about how to thresh it out by taking both sides and pitting them against each other in your mind.

I have lived among people of very "opposing" cultures (different countries). Guilt features prominently in one of them. In my view, it is a kind of abuse to foist such a mindset on a young mind and teach a child that one has to look at an activity so natural and important as eating (or sleeping) and feel guilt or shame because of it. How does this not increase suffering? If one's ideal is to work towards diminishing suffering in this world, is causing more of it (to others or to oneself) the right method? In either case, why? And then follows the rationalists question to the idealist: "Will that work?"

If I were to be entirely honest, I do not think this medium can serve well to settle this matter. If we had met in person, I'd have been happy to share a meal with you and learn where each of us is headed. Not that that would settle it of course but it is much easier to debate such matters in those circumstances. I wish you luck and hope that you find a path to what you seek.

What I dont do is pretend it is an issue that I need not take any part in resolving. Nor do I advocate a monastic lifestyle. I simply say there is a middle that is ideal, and if so, why are we not compelled to take that position less we be hypocrites?

As for me, I can go to bed in peace without worrying about world peace and world hunger. I never claimed otherwise. If one were to accuse me of hypocrisy in this matter, I'd expect some evidence before I consider the possibility that there may be a point to it.

I guess in the end, if you can go to bed in peace, does that mean nothing bothers you? Is there nothing in the world which keeps you up or night or makes you wish you could change for the better? Or are you perfectly happy with the way things are?

I took the liberty to make a few assumptions in my questions but you may also note that it is likewise with your line of questioning.

Cheers,

It bothers me because they is a single truth in the world. There is only one reality, not your view of it. Nor my view of it. In fact, the only reason we can talk and communicate effectively is because we fundamentally agree that there is an underlying truth of any situation, and only our lack of knowledge separates us from understanding each others perspective. It really does make me wonder how I can sit here and not be comfortable knowing that others lack a basic human right like Healthcare, while some say it is not a human right and you either work for it, or get lucky and happen to be born into. It's a matter of injustice from my perspective, and I can't understand why it's not for yours.

> Why is what you see "the one right way"?

Because as far as I can tell I'm earnestly seeking the truest sense of reality and what we want reality to be like. I ask questions and seek answers continually rather than just say, "whelp, that's all I need to know. My thirst for knowledge is satiated."

And thats not a knock to say you can't find what makes you happy in life and be satisfied with that. But it also doesn't mean you can't be shown a better way that still allows you to have what you want while others are taken care of even better.

> I can not answer endless questions on this medium as it doesn't seem to take us forward.

I beg to differ. I learn much from every single question I ask and I better understand what makes humans tick. It's invaluable in a way you don't have to even understand how.

Usually I'm awake in my bed for at least an hour. Sometimes two. I just really can't stop thinking. It's not anxiety in my case.

Any people here who were in a similar situation and were able to get rid of it, or make significant improvement?

The biggest one for me was physical exercise. Working out hard for 1-3 hours after work (most people can't put in 3 hours, I know) left me sufficiently physically exhausted that whatever mentally engaging activities I got into later, I was crashing by midnight no matter what. Doing this after work was also critical as it helped create a clean break from work (where many stressful or technically engaging thoughts come from for me). Exercising in the morning did not have the same effect.

Some examples include:

- If I found myself stranded on an island, what kinds of challenges would I have to overcome and how?

- If I could improve the magic system of Harry Potter, what changes would I introduce?

- If I were given a device that I could use to turn back the time to 6 am once everyday, how could I use it to my best advantage while avoiding any pitfalls?

- If I were given a small 12x12x12 room with an unlimited budget to create a living space for me to be confined in, how would I use that space?

These would be the kinds of things that I could think about for a while before finding myself fast asleep. Not sure if this would work for anyone else, but maybe you can give it a try?

If not, I can guarantee* you'll enjoy it.

* as much as anything can be guaranteed anyway ;)

Brains sure are different and weird across us all.

Because I've already seen the episodes, they don't stimulate any thinking. They're comedy, so all happy and lighthearted. Well written comedy is funny on multiple-goarounds, but other than some chuckles the point is mostly to help me fall asleep happy. On a bad night I'll listen to two episodes, but mostly I'm asleep halfway through the first episode.

My go to shows fwiw are It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and The Office. Parks and Recreation also works. It's OK to have plot, as long as you already know the plot / have seen the show enough, so you aren't trying to watch the episode.

Since some of these shows moved off Netflix I've had to buy them on Google Play store. FWIW Google Play's player is better than amazon video's for mobile (it's basically youtube's player).

The wireless earbuds I use are these: $35, https://www.amazon.com/Soundcore-Bluetooth-Headphones-Waterp... and they're connected by a cord so you don't lose one of the buds when you sleep (used to happen to me). I have two sets of earbuds now, because I really struggle to sleep without it now that it's part of my routine and I can't risk them not being charged.

Huh, lucky one. Some stay awake until morning.

I know that some people find it strange or even perverted, but try listening to ASMR. First find an artist and a specific 1-2h long video that calms your mind at day while you work or read, and then use it for going to sleep (use comfortable earbuds). They have special videos for sleep, but you may use any of them. You’ll skip a handful of artists and asmr types before you find that one, so be patient. Also try languages you don’t speak (french, chinese). Top, “general purpose” artists is a good start.

Also use browser youtube version and adblock that surely blocks youtube ads, or they will jumpscare you, and turn off autoplay.

It takes a week of consistent bed time to create a consistent time to fall asleep again.

Since I am fully aware of how my sleep cycle works my only conclusion is: I hate EXTERNAL EVENT.

Be engaged during the day. Use that mental energy. Whatever that means, but challenge yourself and exhaust yourself.

Exercise which is just generally really good for your mental and physical state. Do note that working out later at night can make the problem worse since exercises also causes stress chemicals in your brain and it takes a few hours for those to clear.

Melatonin[1] an hour before bed. It's safe, non-habit forming, dirt cheap, very mild and surprisingly effective in my experience. I take it as needed instead of every night, but I know a few folks take it every night.

[1] - https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th...

I haven't tried CBD oil at all (save one time I accidentally got a canned coffee with cbd added to it). I have one friend who reports positive effects but doesn't use it consistently.

I have to be completely exhausted in order to get to sleep reasonably quickly after going to bed. I might try meditation at some point... but yes my mind as well suddenly turns on. I also seem to drift off lightly for some period of time and then I find myself unexpectedly awake again and my mind is obnoxiously alert and ready to grind through thoughts.

The next day is usually not enjoyable.

I also drift off and notice it and jerk wide awake. Sometimes with hypnagogia, shadows take the form of bad people or I see spiders hovering or running across my vision. It's a bit disturbing and definitely doesn't help when I get an adrenaline response. I seem far more prone to it when I'm very tired and parts of my brain are shutting down but this one stubborn conscious area keeps me up.

I've tried exercise both during the day and the evening in case it's a physical thing, but it either doesn't help or makes it worse. Sometimes my active brain state amplifies physical aches and pains and itches and it just runs away from me and is very distracting.

I think what might really be missing is a sense of closure or achievement. A lot of things in life can give gratification without meaning, but the days I do something like finish fixing the shower or putting up shelves, it does seem a bit easier to switch off at night. Cooking is the closest I get most days.

Don't be discouraged if it's not working right away. It has to work but you may need months of training before it starts to work well.

The hardest challenge is to be completely cold to the thoughts, no matter how important they may seem, ignore them and return to counting the breaths.

I've tried counting back from 5000 slowly on each breath. I got very far before stopping. Going backwards with large numbers is meant to take a bit more mental energy I think.

I've done the 1-10 then reset, we did that in Yoga at the gym. I've also done the box breathing where you breathe in and out slowly but at different rates.

I think mostly it will come down to practice like anything else. I get upset if it doesn't work but I enjoy ruminating so it's hard to let go. In many of these techniques I was very relaxed but still had an attentive core stopping the sleep from happening.

"Me and ADHD"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25992390

I'm not diagnosing you or anything but that thread put me on to the fact I might have that type of wiring too ... it would explain a lot ( for me ) and possibly some of that ^ ?

[ EDIT ] Anxiety is hands down my primary problem, but sometimes some issues can obfuscate others, and cause deductive fallacies by encouraging you to explain everything away under the umbrella of that first cause.

My mum also had insomnia for years. She did get some sleeping pills as a twice a week "reset" and I think a lot of mental issues are exacerbated by poor sleep leading to weak willpower so that could help. But she said the ADHD meds helped a lot with her sleep too.

This is like someone who doesn't have depression telling someone with depression to 'read a good book' ;)

Meditation is effectively what the article is talking about. Not following those thought avenue's.

Reducing artificial light after sundown and cutting out caffeine and listening to slow placed instrumental music (key being that there are no vocals/lyrics for the brain to attach to) has fixed my "awake brain" issue. Try to also avoid screen time before and in bed as each "new" thing you see (lets say, hackernews post titles) will activate your brain for a few minutes and keep it awake long after it has seen them. I use a single tea candle and switch off all other sources of light - it emits more than enough light! Basically you want to try to limit any inputs and have a consistent winding down ritual.

After a while the brain will accept this new ritual and will immediately get into a relaxed state if the lights go down and it hears a certain pace of music. For me, hang drum + flute music is the best, followed by calm asian instruments. When you listen to the same calm playlist over and over at bedtime, eventually you will know them. When you get to this stage, the brain will get bored with them at first - then you can double down and hum with the song (if you live alone of coarse). Try not to "talk" to yourself internally during your winding down ritual as it will keep the brain awake (don't try to convince the brain it is time to sleep, it will resist and fight back with more awareness).

Do this for 2 weeks and see if your night ritual improves. Obviously adjust it for your circumstances. Make it your special me-time. Choose the music to be unique and don't play those songs at other times. If you brain really wants to have a chat, ask it how it's been, tell it you are thankful for it and you will see it again in the morning! Make it your friend, don't fight it. I mean it. Be gentle and caring towards it, like you are it's father/mother, accept it for what it is.

The whole ritual last from 20 to 60 minutes, depending on how tired you are and how much conflict you accumulated during the day (conflicts being work frustrations, traffic frustrations, sexual frustration, doing things against your ideal solution, politics/news). These things all put pressure on the internal state and most people relieve those pressures either by sexual release, exercise or drugs/alcohol/food before bed. Having a self care ritual is another option. Sleep will do most of the work for us, but sleep is so much better if is not forced but rather gently simmered in. Fresh bed sheets & hot shower can also affect how comfortable the bed feels. A good mattress also helps. Natural smells also helps, so a drop of rose geranium, rubbed on your skin. Again, if you pick a specific flavour/smell to make part of your ritual, use it only during your winding time ritual and not during the day. You want to let the brain associate the music and smells and other environmental factors with "time to relax mode". Be consistent.

The thing that disturbs my peace the easiest is caffeine, even a single cup in the morning can effect my night time ritual.

Anyway. The above kind of what works for me, it's not medical/scientific based, hope it helps. Self care goes a long way!

For the rest - every time I read something like this I think about my wife, for two reasons.

One - any ritual will force her to do the same and play along but that might be asking a lot if its against her natural inclinations. She tends to want to stay up late (like me) and gets some of her best work done then. If I go to bed alone, then if she is still in the house (so I know she is coming along later) that anticipation alone is usually enough to keep me awake.

Two - she doesn't need any of that. Why can she fall asleep in 5 minutes after reading her phone in bed and breaking every single rule people give me? It always bothers me and I get very jealous :)