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Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by xrisk on Sunday January 31, 2021 @02:08AM (#25976791)
Once the mandis are gone, what prevents a monopolized market from then strong-arming farmers into bad deals? Farmers do not have leverage to negotiate good deals with big corps, and when the mandis eventually die away (simply due to this bill); they will be forced to enter into exploitative deals.

EDIT

> But can ONLY sell the produce to the local Mandi.

This is factually incorrect. Only about 30% of produce is sold in mandis. [1] [2]

[1] https://www.downtoearth.org.in/blog/agriculture/by-pushing-f...

[2] https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/can-free-trade-...

Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by youeseh on Sunday January 31, 2021 @03:23AM (#25977117)
> What prevents a monopolized market?

I'm not sure if the Indian government does this, but in some countries the government breaks up monopolies and tries to prevent them from forming in the first place.

I think the new laws allow anyone to approach a farmer with a better deal, and if the farmer chooses, they can even try to sell directly to the end customers.

Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by srean on Sunday January 31, 2021 @06:08AM (#25977901)
Indeed. I am against these laws because there are no such safeguards. In fact these laws take away the right to approach the courts in case of a dispute. Previously the state government could conduct raids in case hoarding of supplies were indicated. According to these laws the state governments cannot do that on the basis of rising prices till the scarcity pushes the price up by another 100%.

Agri needs reform, but that does not mean that the proposed ones are what is needed.

Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by xrisk on Sunday January 31, 2021 @03:42AM (#25977190)
The Indian government actively colludes with big corp; forget about breaking up monopolies (see: Jio).

As for the claim that the new laws allow anybody to approach a farmer with a better deal; sure that works in theory -- but notice that 1) that only works if there isn't a monopoly that drives prices (consider Jio that successfully monopolized telecom in India and now effectively sets prices throughout the industry) 2) farmers would be contractually obligated to sell produce (which would be a long-term deal).

The issue might be alleviated if the government promises to enforce a minimum price on all contracts made, but it will do nothing of that sort.

As for selling directly to end customers, in my limited knowledge, that is not a thing in India.

Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by qart on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:42AM (#25977802)
Jio is not a monopoly by any stretch of imagination. My family is entirely on Airtel. No one has felt the need to switch. Among all my friends, only one person uses Jio.
Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by xrisk on Sunday January 31, 2021 @05:58AM (#25977853)
... You realize that it set pricing across operators forcing literally every single one of them into losses?
Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by qart on Sunday January 31, 2021 @06:12AM (#25977921)
No one can "realize" fake facts. Here are some real facts: https://assets.airtel.in/teams/simplycms/web/docs/Bharti_Air...
Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by xrisk on Sunday January 31, 2021 @06:52AM (#25978156)
You've linked me to a subsidiary [1] (that too one that sells telecom hardware)? Airtel the co has made 300M INR in losses for 2019-2020 [2]

[1]: https://www.emis.com/php/company-profile/IN/Bharti_Airtel_Se...

[2]: https://assets.airtel.in/teams/simplycms/web/docs/Airtel-Int...

Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by qart on Sunday January 31, 2021 @07:24AM (#25978295)
I linked you to Airtel's Indian telecom business, i.e. the business in direct competition to Jio. The document you linked to says it's about "Operations in 18 countries including India and Sri Lanka", offering many kinds of services unrelated to telecom.
Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by xrisk on Sunday January 31, 2021 @07:26AM (#25978301)
From [1]:

> Bharti Airtel Services Limited (BASL) engages mainly in selling of hardware for internet and satellite business.

Also please do elaborate on what sources of revenue that Airtel has that cause its 300M in loss while (as you claim) it makes profits in their telecom?

Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by qart on Sunday January 31, 2021 @08:10AM (#25978537)
https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/8155686Z:IN

"Bharti Airtel Services Ltd. provides telecommunication services. The Company offers mobile, voice, and data services, as well as fixed line, high speed broadband, IPTV, and DTH services. Bharti provides telecom solutions for enterprises and international long distance service carriers."

> Also please do elaborate on what sources of revenue that Airtel has that cause its 300M in loss

Not interested. The bottom line is that Bharti Airtel Services, the direct competitor of Jio, is making a profit, contrary to your beliefs. Jio is not a monopoly.

Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by bythckr on Sunday January 31, 2021 @03:37AM (#25977170)
> Once the mandis are gone

Where are the mandis going? If they are non-competitive, they are out. But if they lose their non-sense and compete, they can be around. Also, the people working at the Mandis (Mandi employees), they are also free to start their own company that compete with the Mandis.

> what prevents a monopolized market from then strong-arming farmers into bad deals? This law, which prevents monolopy. The current monopoly is the Mandi. How will be farmers be strong-armed to a bad deal if they have options to choose?

> This is factually incorrect.

My mistake, "But can ONLY sell the produce to the local Mandi at some states". Punjab is an example of were Mandis have complete power. While in other states like TN, Bihar, MP, UP and more have already changed the rule.

> Only about 30% of produce is sold in mandis.

that is a bit misleading as Mandis dont have prominence is all states. But in Punjab where they are there, no one is allowed.

Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by MichaelMoser123 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:39AM (#25977501)
thanks bythckr for your detailed answer. I got a better understanding of the very fragmented nature of politics in India; Wishing you all the best, and I really hope that eventually the Indian model of governance will be regarded as superior over the Chinese model (which, unfortunately, has been gathering a lot of fans recently) I think that in a way both India and China are leading the way for the rest of us, because your countries have to cope with a very large number of people and very complex societies.
Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by xrisk on Sunday January 31, 2021 @03:54AM (#25977247)
> Where are the mandis going? If they are non-competitive, they are out.

They would be non-competitive because of the no taxation clause that the bill has -- allowing big corp to undercut the mandis. Not to mention that corps are known to take losses just to establish market monopoly (see Jio).

> But in Punjab where they are there, no one is allowed.

I don't understand why you cite the mandi as a monopoly, when in the existing system a farmer can choose to sell anywhere they want?

Let the big corps procure from the farmers, at a "competitive price" as you say. Why should they deserve tax breaks?

The fact of the matter is that the mandi is desirable and has contributed to the material success of Punjab's farmers. There is no doubt that there are inefficiencies and leakages, but to do away with them in deference to the gods of the "free market" is a bit questionable. Unrelated quote: "the quality of public education might not be very good, but that doesn't mean we do away with it".

As for your comparison with other states, I would recommend you check out this article: https://www.hindustantimes.com/opinion/why-punjab-should-not...

Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by sbmthakur on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:09AM (#25977326)
Why will anyone pay the Mandi cess if they are not operating in a Mandi?
Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by xrisk on Sunday January 31, 2021 @04:38AM (#25977497)
Because the APMC has to pay the cess and they supply India's PDS and various important things? Or would you have them do away with those too?
Re:India protests: Internet cut to hunger-striking farmers i... by sbmthakur on Sunday January 31, 2021 @09:35AM (#25979086)
I would have people directly pay to PDS instead going through another beaurocratic and potentially corrupt layer.