Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies?

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by questionably5th on Saturday January 30, 2021 @11:52AM (#25970612)

Except that they can't. If they came in legally then those sites wouldn't hire them. They're hired for the fact that they are undocumented, and therefore can be paid a fraction of what is legally required.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by goatinaboat on Saturday January 30, 2021 @02:16PM (#25972012)

They're hired for the fact that they are undocumented, and therefore can be paid a fraction of what is legally required.

Completely correct. Undocumented workers compete with those on minimum wage. It’s those who are harmed most.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by cheph on Saturday January 30, 2021 @11:56AM (#25970654)

So then they can just not enter the US illegally. There are Billions of people living outside of the US every day. And the people in the US is crying day in and day out that it is a racist hellhole and how cops are huting people of color on the streets like animals and burning down cities in protest. Seems like they would be better off somewhere else. I would not immigrate to US if someone paid me.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by wizzwizz4 on Saturday January 30, 2021 @12:47PM (#25971144)

There are, actually, worse places to live than the US. Just because the US is one of the worst countries of its wealth level in the world, and just because the English-speaking web is full of US news, that doesn't mean the US is the worst place to be.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by cheph on Saturday January 30, 2021 @01:43PM (#25971669)

Why not rather petition places that is not racist hellholes to take the undocumented immigrants and even some US citizens as refugees? Why try and get them into a racist hellhole in the first place? Just because it is not the worst place in the world, does not mean that the US is not a hellhole.

Really it is abusive to let anyone into that place.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by ch4s3 on Saturday January 30, 2021 @11:42AM (#25970517)

> they could always immigrate legally

The current immigration system makes that impossible for most workers without degrees and from outside of a few select countries.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by jessedhillon on Saturday January 30, 2021 @12:52PM (#25971189)

Where are you getting that information? Near as I can tell, the share of foreign born people who have degrees is similar to the share of all Americans with degrees:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2...

Unfortunately this source doesn't break out those who entered with degrees from those who attained degrees in the US. But I have to imagine that many of those are in the latter camp, meaning they entered without degrees. Either way, the majority don't have any degree according to this.

How does your claim square with these facts?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by cheph on Saturday January 30, 2021 @11:52AM (#25970619)

So then they can go somewhere else. There are billion of people living outside of the US. To suggest they are slaves because they chose to illegally enter the US makes no sense.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by ch4s3 on Saturday January 30, 2021 @12:01PM (#25970700)

I never said that, just that legal immigration to the US is basically closed to everyone, which is historically unusual for the US. I also think it's antithetical to the American project.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by cheph on Saturday January 30, 2021 @02:09PM (#25971947)

So then how are these people slaves if they could just not voluntarily choose to illegally enter a systemically racist country where people of color are hunted by cops like dogs and treated as subhuman trash by all white people?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by ch4s3 on Saturday January 30, 2021 @06:40PM (#25974200)

I never said any of those things, just that legal immigration barely exists.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by cheph on Saturday January 30, 2021 @06:50PM (#25974249)

I was responding to someone saying illegal immigrants in the US are slaves because they immigrated illegally instead of not doing that.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by ch4s3 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @12:59AM (#25976474)

I disagree with the degree severity of the OP’s statement. But US foreign policy coupled with shifts in climate (political and meteorological?) have made large parts of Central America pretty unlivable. To the extent the we are responsible for the state of affairs in Central America, we should be taking in refuges and economic migrants.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by harimau777 on Saturday January 30, 2021 @01:22PM (#25971461)

In many cases they are fleeing violence or poverty. They don't really have other options.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by cheph on Saturday January 30, 2021 @02:36PM (#25972193)

Fleeing violence and poverty? By voluntarily becoming slaves (people who are owned by other people and have no agency in their lives) by illegally entering a systemically racist and white supremacist country where racist white supremacists cops hunt black people like dogs on the street with impunity?!

And they are slaves inside the US but in no other country that they are in except the US?

This logic does not square for me.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by wpietri on Saturday January 30, 2021 @03:04PM (#25972458)

> This logic does not square for me.

So what? I imagine the very last concern of people deciding whether to move to another country in hopes of improving their family's life is whether some random internet commenter understands them.

If you actually want to understand it, writing obstreperous and ignorant forum posts isn't going to change anything. Seek out their own voices and actually listen.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by cheph on Saturday January 30, 2021 @04:00PM (#25972932)

> So what? I imagine the very last concern of people deciding whether to move to another country in hopes of improving their family's life is whether some random internet commenter understands them.

They did not call themselves slaves ... someone on HN did. The logic I cannot square is how someone can say these people are slaves with a straight face.

I don't care what they do with their lives, if they want to illegally enter a racist facist hellhole where half the country are white supremacists that is their choice. What I object to is saying they are slaves because they voluntarily make this choice.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by standardUser on Saturday January 30, 2021 @02:31PM (#25972150)

Perhaps you are the kind of person who would rather see their family suffer instead of breaking immigration laws for a chance at a vastly improved life and future for your children. The undocumented workers you speak of are not those kind of people.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by cheph on Saturday January 30, 2021 @02:55PM (#25972381)

Perhaps you are the kind of person who thinks slavery is better than liberty as long as your masters look after you well enough. I on the other hand abhor slavery.

You have to believe that being a free person anywhere else than US is worse than being a slave in US for this to make sense. And I'm not a slave, and not in US, and I would much rather be anywhere else than in US, so not sure what I'm missing.

> a vastly improved life and future for your children

In USA? A white supremacist and systemically racist hellhole where cops hunt people of color like dogs on the street and put the ones they don't kill into private slave prisons? How is it better than just not having that?

I would not even visit USA if someone paid me, and I feel sorry for the people who have to live there every day of their lives and if I had more means I would do more to help the people who live in the US find other options. Surely it is some crime against humanity to make people live in a place like that.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Are the Persian Gulf city-states slave societies? by wyclif on Saturday January 30, 2021 @06:02PM (#25973904)

You have clearly never been to the USA. You sound utterly delusional.

[ Parent | on HN ]