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Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by worble on Thursday January 28, 2021 @05:34AM (#25940289)
Looking for pricing, I get to this page: https://www.8x8.com/products/apis/video

>We're charging on a Monthly Active User (MAU)

>Pricing starts at $0.35/MAU and decreases based on volume.

>An MAU is defined as a unique user who attended at least one meeting, with at least one other user, in the same month. To determine a unique user, we store an identifier on the device's local storage, and that will remain the same as long as the user uses the same browser and same device and doesn't clear their local cache data. Mobile is similar. An identifier remains across updates and gets removed if you delete the app.

So does that mean that if they are running Cookie AutoDelete or Temporary Containers addons, or simply clear all their browser data after exiting, any single user could easily eat all your user limit if they just repeatedly connected to the service? Or, even just having a single person connect on their desktop, laptop and phone once would eat 3 of your licenses?

Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by thedracle on Thursday January 28, 2021 @03:42PM (#25948882)
Jitsi is open source, so you can look at the exact mechanics of their billing counter to answer your question:

It's all orchestrated from here: https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet/blob/master/react/featur...

Which generates the MAU ID via:

react/features/billing-counter/functions.js:80

/* * Returns the stored billing id (or generates a new one if none is present). * * @returns {string} */

export function getBillingId() {

    let billingId = jitsiLocalStorage.getItem(BILLING_ID);

    if (!billingId) {
        billingId = uuid.v4();
        jitsiLocalStorage.setItem(BILLING_ID, billingId);
    }

    return billingId;
}
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by emcho on Thursday January 28, 2021 @11:54AM (#25944766)
(Jitsi Dev here) Yes you are correct. Cookie delete is indeed something that would trigger a new user count. So far we haven't seen this happen but if you believe your users would be massively cleaning cookies, we are happy to have a conversation and find a work around for you.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by Stephen304 on Thursday January 28, 2021 @01:10PM (#25946094)
FWIW, me and my team would likely be super into paying for a hosted Jitsi if there was another pricing structure. We run our own but keeping it running smoothly takes away dev energy. Counting usage like this just seems very ripe for abuse by anybody who wishes to harm the group.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by saghul on Friday January 29, 2021 @02:24AM (#25954940)
Please do reach out to us, we just got started and are happy to discuss.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by sandGorgon on Thursday January 28, 2021 @11:59AM (#25944858)
Do consider pricing on the peak number of simultaneous streams (like Pusher.com does)
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by kwindla on Thursday January 28, 2021 @09:07AM (#25941890)
Pricing for real-time video is hard. There are pretty large variable costs to run a service like this.

WebRTC is peer-to-peer, architecturally. But if you run the service you pay for bandwidth for users behind firewalls (because you need to forward the audio/video through TURN servers) and for calls with more than 3 or 4 people (because you need to offload some of the cpu/bandwidth from the clients).

Bandwidth and media server CPU set the floor for what you need to charge.

As a SaaS, you can charge per <usage> or charge per <user>. Each pricing model is good for a different subset of your customers. With fairly large variable costs, usage-based pricing is easier to model for you, but not necessarily for your customers.

For example, your (developer) customers that charge a flat rate per "seat" per month for their products will have trouble projecting what their margin will be if you charge them per video minute.

The industry Jitsi/8x8 competes in is gradually moving towards $0.0015/minute as the rough cost of video for customers with significant volume. So one way to look at Jitsi's pricing model is that they are projecting an average of ~4 hours of video per month per unique user. ($0.35 / $0.0015 / 60). Which seems ... low?

This is separate from the question above about how they track unique users, which I agree is really interesting!

Also, and again separately from Jitsi, there's also a long history of not-so-transparent pricing in the telecommunications world. One of the major SaaS video platforms advertises peer-to-peer calls as free on their service. And they are, if you don't count the TURN bandwidth they bill you for.

(Disclaimer: as the cofounder of Daily.co, a YC company that competes with this Jitsi service, I think about variable vs per-user pricing way too much. tldr; we can almost always do better for you than any of our competitors, partly because we're happy to talk to you and put together custom pricing based on your use case. But it's also true that most of our customers, especially our largest customers, don't select us primarily based on price. Empirically, we win on ease of use, video quality, API flexibility, and developer support. So under-pricing isn't an optimal business strategy, either.)

Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by Bswift on Thursday January 28, 2021 @12:38PM (#25945412)
Just wanted to say that daily.co was crucial to my company during the early months of the lockdown. We had a fully integrated telehealth option deployed for our users in a weekend. You all are amazing!
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by orixilus on Thursday January 28, 2021 @07:46PM (#25951971)
Same here :) best solution all around. Easy/quick to implement and affordable
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by ourcat on Thursday January 28, 2021 @12:19PM (#25945131)
I'd never heard of Daily.co before. Looks great! Nice work.

I'm about to start building out an idea I've had based on WebRTC/MediaSoup/nginx-RTMP and ffmpeg. (But not for 'live' video calls though).

And having just seen your Jobs page, I think I might drop you guys a line, once I've got something working. ;)

Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by jefftk on Thursday January 28, 2021 @10:14AM (#25942998)
I'm currently using Twilio for echo.jefftk.com, and paying $0.004/minute (I'm very low volume).

I was considering switching to this, but their pricing is a terrible fit for my "most calls have mostly people who've never used it before" situation.

Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by sudosysgen on Thursday January 28, 2021 @11:34AM (#25944447)
There are other JaaS providers that might have better pricing for you
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by philipps on Thursday January 28, 2021 @07:51AM (#25941141)
I would still like to see an answer to the questions above. In particular, does a user who connects on three devices count as three MAUs?
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by Spare_account on Thursday January 28, 2021 @10:41AM (#25943557)
If MAUs is hard, then don't use MAU as a billing metric? Charge for concurrent connections or by the minute maybe?
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by avianlyric on Thursday January 28, 2021 @03:25PM (#25948533)
Sounds like it. But at 35cents / month, that doesn’t sound like a bad outcome.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by owens99 on Thursday January 28, 2021 @05:47AM (#25940380)
That’s way too expensive. My $80/month server bill can support millions of users per month but would only get me <300 MAUs on this service?

Edit: my guess is I misunderstood who they are targeting with this. Thought they were targeting developers who want to integrate Jitsi with an existing product.

Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by jrh206 on Thursday January 28, 2021 @06:03AM (#25940483)
Personally, I feel like this is really generous pricing

Compare it to, e.g. Slack (https://app.slack.com/plans/T01JN93179R?geocode=en-gb) or Zoom (https://zoom.us/pricing)

Notwithstanding any accounting issues raised by worble, which I'm sure will be ironed out over time

Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by glaive123 on Thursday January 28, 2021 @07:08AM (#25940851)
They must be targeting people who just want to use this for internal purposes, rather than developers who want to integrate Jitsi with an existing product.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by emcho on Thursday January 28, 2021 @11:53AM (#25944753)
(Jitsi Dev here) Most of our customers are actually developers and that's how the service is intended. Hope this helps
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by jrh206 on Thursday January 28, 2021 @07:21AM (#25940940)
Yes, exactly. This offering is a Zoom alternative
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by eznzt on Thursday January 28, 2021 @07:23AM (#25940954)
This is like people saying fastmail pricing is reasonable because other providers gyp you too.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by mstade on Thursday January 28, 2021 @07:36AM (#25941039)
I don't get it, what's wrong with fastmail's pricing? I've been a customer for years and never thought much about it.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by JacobSuperslav on Thursday January 28, 2021 @07:25AM (#25940966)
it isn't? i used it for years and been very happy.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by eznzt on Thursday January 28, 2021 @07:39AM (#25941062)
The marginal cost of the service they provide is like 10% of what they charge, or even less.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by vharuck on Thursday January 28, 2021 @10:09AM (#25942898)
If you believe this, start a competing service. There is no moral or practical rule that forces prices down to cost without external reason. If Fastmail is making big bucks, and customers are happy with the price, that's good for everyone.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by tomashubelbauer on Thursday January 28, 2021 @08:22AM (#25941397)
Do you go to restaurants expecting to pay only the total cost of ingredients for your meal? Fastmail provides an excellent service and if anything I feel as though I underpay for what I'm getting. I'm happy to know they have a healthy margin to pay their developers from and improve the product.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by eznzt on Thursday January 28, 2021 @08:59AM (#25941785)
I expect to pay a reasonable price. Being overcharged by 90% is not reasonable.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by marcinzm on Thursday January 28, 2021 @11:02AM (#25943928)
Restaurants charge 4-5x the cost of ingredients. So I take it you never eat out?
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by eznzt on Thursday January 28, 2021 @11:19AM (#25944243)
I have worked in one and no they don't. Most restaurants barely break even by the end of the month once you factor in all costs (like employees, rent...), which I did in the example of fastmail.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by marcinzm on Thursday January 28, 2021 @11:28AM (#25944377)
You said marginal cost which is not all costs. Marginal cost is equivalent to ingredients and does not include fixed costs which likely make up the majority fo their expenses.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by JacobSuperslav on Wednesday February 03, 2021 @02:39PM (#26018145)
Any good alternatives you could recommend?
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by saghul on Thursday January 28, 2021 @05:56AM (#25940441)
Millions of users per month doing video conferencing?
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by jamespo on Thursday January 28, 2021 @07:05AM (#25940830)
Of course not
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by owens99 on Thursday January 28, 2021 @07:10AM (#25940867)
No. I meant for a normal SPA or CRUD app without video.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by saghul on Thursday January 28, 2021 @07:13AM (#25940880)
Then what are you trying to compare? The pricing includes all video traffic relaying, which is the non-trivial part of these types of setups.
Re:JaaS: The team that builds Jitsi can now also run it for you by cryptonym on Thursday January 28, 2021 @06:05AM (#25940488)
Not the best comparison. Probably depends on your use-case.

How much does it cost to setup and maintain the platform (actually reachable from end users) 24/24 at 99.99 ? Global infra ? Dealing with HIPAA/GDPR ?