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Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by tharne on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:58PM (#25931446)
I don't know why we always go back to income inequality, it's not a useful metric. What matters is how many people are living good, prosperous lives. You can have have income equality simply by keeping everyone equally poor, or you can have prosperous societies where some people have a lot more than others, but everyone is doing well. Income inequality is only meaningful if the amount if wealth and prosperity in a society is fixed, which it's not.
Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:31PM (#25931922)
> I don't know why we always go back to income inequality

Because it's pretty well established that outside of the most abject poverty, relative deprivation is a more significant factor driving experienced disutility than absolute material condition, contrary to the naive assumptions many people make that increasing individual absolute material condition increases individual utility independent of external context.

There are, of course, people who don't believe it works that way, people who don't want it to work that way, and people who don't want other people to believe it works that way because such belief threatens their own advantaged position.

Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by d1zzy on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:58PM (#25932289)
That reads as an argument but my lack of English skills makes it hard to understand what exactly are you saying.

However, it does seem to me that that you still haven't addressed one of the main points you're responding to, that we can have perfect equality where everyone lives as the average person below poverty line today. Would that be a better society considering your arguments?

Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @02:42PM (#25932916)
> we can have perfect equality where everyone lives as the average person below poverty line today

Well, no, we probably can't. Inequality can be mitigated, but it can’t be eliminated, especially durably.

> Would that be a better society considering your arguments?

That's really an objectively unanswerable question for many reasons. You can't really measure, on more than an ordinal scale, individual utility, or aggregate it, except by interposing non-objective judgements. Would it be better for lots of people currently above the poverty line? Maybe, depends how far below the poverty line the equal society was.

Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by vorpalhex on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @02:05PM (#25932376)
I'm a college educated native speaker who reads medical research in my free time and I can't understand what the parent was saying.
Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by db579 on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @02:33PM (#25932780)
Arguably yes. I'm not saying it's necessarily the world I would want to live in but I suspect the world's aggregate perceived level of happiness may be higher.
Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by roenxi on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @03:45PM (#25933685)
> ... relative deprivation is a more significant factor driving experienced disutility than absolute material condition ...

Which data are you talking about? Because on the one hand, yes. On the other hand most of the data I'm aware of is very context- (especially social-situation-) specific. I don't think there is evidence that the simple existence somewhere out there of very wealthy people is upsetting.

Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by AlexandrB on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:28PM (#25931862)
Unfortunately the amount of power in society is largely fixed, and income inequality combined with rulings like Citizens United lets that power be captured by the very few. I suppose it's nice that this kind of modern serfdom lets people live relatively "well", but if people sense they have no control over their government you're headed for trouble.
Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by science4sail on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:27PM (#25931857)
I think that the greater question here is if human well-being is affected more by absolute wealth or by relative wealth.
Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by adolph on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @03:19PM (#25933382)
The US is primarily a materialist individualistic society where good is defined by commercial mimesis and folklore of the particular outweigh that of the common. Expressing concern for “income inequality” signals a virtuous desire for all to attain a nirvana of stuff attained through the magic of money.
Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by bmitc on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @04:45PM (#25934416)
That is hardly the case. Expressing concern for income inequality means expressing concern for people to have autonomy, proper food and shelter, proper healthcare, savings, and retirement capability. It is not virtue signaling, as you put it.
Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by adolph on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @07:16PM (#25936198)
Yes, as you just stated you are primarily concerned with materialism and by introducing “income inequality” into any and every discussion, similar to a vegan talking food, you signal that you promote virtue despite not understanding that a good life is much more than material concerns. If it is not “virtue signaling” as I did not put it, than what is your motivation for continuing the cyclical social structure of income and “proper” stuff? You and anyone, even the “people” for whom you wish to demonstrate concern, can step off the hedonic treadmill anytime you want.
Re:U.S. Suffers Sharpest Rise in Poverty Rate in More Than 5... by Splendor on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @01:10PM (#25931609)
I think you're trying to say that it's not a useful metric by itself. Which may be true. But we're able to observe multiple metrics luckily. And we know that not everyone is doing well. So naturally we're going to look to other metrics for more information.