Taleb's thoughts on this kind of effect are quite interesting [1]. There's a kind "Tyranny of the Minority" where the group goes with the minority decision on something like this simply because the majority doesn't care _enough_.

[1] https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

But that doesn't fit with this example, the minority here is definitely ppl who switch to signal or want to use Signal as their main communication app.

Talebs arguments are more fitting in instances in which the cost of providing a different solution for a minority is too high and the cost (for some central provider) of just complying with minority demands for everyone is lower. Doesn't apply here at all.

I was referring to the friend who refused to leave WhatsApp not the broader global effect of migrating to Signal. For small group sizes the minority group’s preference will vary.

Well I could do so, but as said the majority won't really see the benefits of pushing so hard. They're willing to switch but not willing to advocate.

So, in other words is not one person who is pushing to remain on Whatsapp, but instead only one person pushing to leave.

I read that as "only one person who is pushing to remain on Whatsapp, and only one person pushing to leave."

Long before this recent flurry around Whatsapp (and Facebook in general) I duplicated one of my primary Whatsapp groups on Signal after getting most there to at least created an account.

Slowly, by only replying in that group and sending my messages there, I was able to move more of them over and finally the other group died which lead to the last individuals to come over to Signal.

It takes time, but can be done.

Whether it's doable depends on the time you can wait, and ultimately your objective.

Is it enough to stop using WhatsApp within one year?

Or should we be striving to migrate and delete our accounts before the policy change takes effect, to also prevent our historical WhatsApp data to be linked to our FB account?

I don't have a clear answer myself. Anyone more informed, please elaborate.

I have seen the same problem. I got 6 to 7 of my groups migrated (completely or partially), but some outspoken people who don't care (and arguably don't know better) prevent the 'upgrade' for everyone.

Signal is privacy focused at the cost of functionality and IMO the UI looks like programmer art - you might like the tradeoffs but I suspect most people won't.

As a long term Signal user, I also came to really hate it for all the bugs and flaws it has. All the encryption warnings become meaningless at some point, because someone is always having issues and refreshes the session or something like that. Does that mean we're getting MITM'ed?

You can't delete Signal contacts, like, ever. My signal address book and synchronized chats are flooded with plain numbers, or self-titled user names (which also invites for identity fraud...), because I deleted those contacts in my phone (which ofc I need to do, because it's used for privacy settings in other apps...). That's a problem for many years now, the github issues get closed by maintenance bots.

I am a somewhat tech-savvy person, but even for me the user experience leaves me annoyed and uncertain about some basic functionality you expect from messaging apps these days. I stopped recommending it to people some time ago. Don't want to blow my chances to migrate people to something fundamentally better.

Just out of curiosity, do you use iOS or Android?

Android primary, iPad and desktop clients linked.

Comically, every platform has different issues with "deleted" meta-info popping up again. Like "deleted" groups, "deleted" contacts, "deleted" chats... meta links I can't get rid off whatever I do. The worst is legacy groups I left, "deleted", can't even use or join anymore, but also can't get rid of. They reappear every time I refresh the iPad app. Mind you, the group members are still visible, so I am really happy whistle-blowing, terrorism or crime isn't my profession.

This made me really distrusting of Signal, when years old meta data popped up again. Like, have they lost some pointers or something? Can I even expect the data to be gone, when I delete my account for good? Doesn't feel like privacy at all...

> the UI looks like programmer art

The UI looks like iMessage. So it doesn't seem it should be any issue there.

iMessage has shitty UI though. Always strange being reminded it is used extensively in US, but then I remember people in US still send non-robot-made SMS (even robot-made are shifting here to messaging platforms though)

I don't really understand... Does WhatsApp have a better UI? Why?

To me signal is the best UI, and WhatsApp looks like a child designed it. Especially with the horrid default colors and backgrounds.

But I don't really see a difference in UIs in most chat programs. There are only two types of UIs. Point-to-point (signal, WhatsApp, imessage, etc) and room based (irc, matrix, slack).

Their all so similar, I don't understand what is better or worse in Signal compared to WhatsApp.

How many people would use iMessage if it wasn't bundled with the phone ?

What's wrong with iMessage?

Nothing, but there's nothing really compelling about it either. Don't get me wrong - the unassuming system design works great for OS app - but you wouldn't attract many users to it with the feature set it has

I don't really find that a very compelling criticism, to be honest. When I think about what kind of features I'd want in my messaging app, there are really only two things I can think of that iMessage doesn't have: encryption, and the ability to easily leave a group text. Add those two things in, and I'm there for life.

On the other hand, both of these things are essentially limitations imposed by SMS, at least when one end of the conversation is not an iPhone. Both can be fixed, at a small cost in complexity, and if they did that, I think it would hit a good balance between features, usability, and architectural complexity.

But you're a fraction of a percent of users who care about this. I guarantee you 10x more people are interested in having animated stickers.

Funny, most of my contacts that have migrated seem to be of the opposite opinion.

UI in general feels pretty much the same, but things like actual desktop apps with decent UX make a massive difference.

At least 90% in my WhatsApp don't even know what a desktop client for a messenger is...