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Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by rcxdude on Sunday January 24, 2021 @05:06PM (#25896640)
Yeah, exactly. I did a fairly deep dive into what path the car industry is going to take with respect to electric cars (especially what a mass market electric car is going to look like), and it all had a huge asterisk associated with it of "but mass car ownership might stop being a thing before any of this happens", at which point thing change drasticly, because then you have a much smaller market of probably more specialised, expensive cars which are designed for way higher duty cycles than most consumer cars.
Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by mxschumacher on Sunday January 24, 2021 @05:17PM (#25896747)
I should probably dig a little more into the microeconomics, but for me as a consumer the only difference between an autonomous car and an (human) Uber is price. If we assume that the price of the car stays the same, insurance and fuel still have to be paid and the cab app gets their cut - how much of my ride is really attributable to the cost of the human driver? So how much human labor can be automated away to the benefit of consumers? Not much I think.

Given current hardware prices, it seems like the car itself will be a lot more expensive; so how many trips need to be taken so that the variable cost advantage exceeds the increased fixed cost?

Driving is a ubiquitous human skill and tens of millions are looking for work, I believe it will be difficult to undercut them on price.

Drivers also often do more than merely drive - they help with the luggage, they clean the car, they can talk about their city.

Long-haul trucking is a different story, there is a massive labor shortage and letting big rigs go from one warehouse to another without the need of a driver looks like a huge opportunity.

Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by freeone3000 on Sunday January 24, 2021 @10:20PM (#25898651)
Significantly more than half of your ride fare on Uber goes to the driver - between 70 and 130%. Human costs are vastly the most expensive part of hailing a ride, and will remain so as long as minimum wage exists.

The same argument for human drivers also applies to human dishwashers and human launderers, and yet, most of us are fine using machines for this purpose. Whether or not this will cause financial disaster for people relying on it for a source of income is irrelevant when replacing jobs with technology.

Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by throwawayzRUU6f on Monday January 25, 2021 @05:15AM (#25901545)
The statistics, based on https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-how-much-uber-driv...

> Uber drivers typically collect $24.77 per hour

> From that, Uber takes $8.33 in commissions and fees

> Vehicle expenses like gas and maintenance cost drivers about $4.87 per hour

> That leaves drivers with $11.77 per hour

Now, the maintenance and amortization will be higher for autonomous vehicles. Somebody will need to clean these vehicles, scrape the ice off, refuel, monitor them, deal with anomalies and false alarms, etc - all of which is now taken care of by the driver. Autonomous vehicles will likely end up being cheaper, but it's not as clear cut.

Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by freeone3000 on Monday January 25, 2021 @05:39AM (#25901722)
At $11.77 per hour, if you have to hire one person to handle all of that for every two vehicles, it's still a huge savings. It would take a very false-alarm-heavy system to require that level of attention.
Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by aidenn0 on Monday January 25, 2021 @01:24AM (#25899961)
But what fraction of the money that goes to the driver is spent on depreciation and maintenance?
Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by twic on Monday January 25, 2021 @05:13AM (#25901541)
Here's one breakdown:

https://uberdriverlondon.co.uk/is-it-worth-driving-for-uber-...

I think the interesting number there is 23 000 GBP/year, which is effectively the cost to Uber of having a human driver for one car operating 60 hours per week.

If a computer can drive a car for 60 hours a week, it saves money for Uber if the amortized cost is less than 23 000 GBP/yr.

If a computer can drive a car for more than 60 hours a week, it saves money even if it costs more than 23 000 GBP/yr, although i don't think it's linear - demand is concentrated at a few times of day, so one car on the road 24 hours a day is not equivalent o four cars on the road for six hours each.

Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by michaelt on Monday January 25, 2021 @03:59AM (#25901025)
In my country, the government's "generous, all things considered" cost of operating a private car* is 45p per mile - which covers not just fuel, but also depreciation, insurance and suchlike.

Meanwhile, a 12-minute, 4 mile Uber journey would cost me £2.43/mile

Of course, the big unknown here is one of driver utilisation: How many miles does the driver drive to pick me up, and how many minutes are they waiting for the next ride to come in?

* Well, it was considered generous the last time I asked a car owner about it. I'm sure a Lamborghini costs more.

Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by sudosysgen on Monday January 25, 2021 @02:45AM (#25900487)
Don't forget insurance/liability, gas, security, and cleaning up after passengers, too!
Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by mewpmewp2 on Monday January 25, 2021 @02:22AM (#25900311)
You could incorporate augmented reality into car windows etc to talk about the city too. All of what you mentioned are solvable problems via tech.
Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by rcxdude on Monday January 25, 2021 @04:25AM (#25901197)
The driver is a huge part of the cost of a taxi ride (even with Uber subsidising them unsustainably with investor's money). An autonomous car company can price a journey at about the same as a bus ticket for a point-to-point on-demand journey and still make money hand over fist with their first generation hardware. Even for commuters this could be substantially cheaper than a car.
Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by Fricken on Monday January 25, 2021 @05:39AM (#25901725)
The running joke at Waymo for a long time was "How many engineers does it take to operate a self driving car?"
Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by dragonwriter on Sunday January 24, 2021 @10:57PM (#25898897)
> Drivers also often do more than merely drive - they help with the luggage, they clean the car, they can talk about their city.

They commit sexual assault, submit fraudulent reports of rider damages, ...

Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by swagasaurus-rex on Sunday January 24, 2021 @05:13PM (#25896708)
In poorer nations autonomous cars could take much longer for mass adoption due to different, sometimes harsher road conditions, and lack of reliable road-map data.

In addition, self-driving vehicles would be pricier. For a poor nation, that price tag might be higher than human labor.

Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by mxschumacher on Sunday January 24, 2021 @05:20PM (#25896766)
yes, making autonomous driving work in central Delhi or Agadir will be much different from a US highway.

Maybe it's too cyberpunk, but I can already see the headline of road pirates capturing autonomous cars and taking them apart for spares. Those sensors, the GPU and computing units are quite valuable.

Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by TheDong on Sunday January 24, 2021 @11:15PM (#25899024)
Your impression of Delhi and Agadir doesn't seem right to me. By the numbers, Delhi has the highest crime-rate in india, but it has a 5 times lower rate of crime than San Francisco does.

And also, self-driving cars will all have enough cameras and be constantly connected to a server that theft will be far less likely for them than regular cars... and regular calls already seem to get by just fine without people stripping them to the bolts.

Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by mxschumacher on Monday January 25, 2021 @03:17AM (#25900726)
I meant the kind of traffic they have, I've driven there, it's unique!
Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by strangeattractr on Sunday January 24, 2021 @11:49PM (#25899323)
Unreported crimes aren't factored into the stats you quote.
Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by sudosysgen on Monday January 25, 2021 @11:23AM (#25904970)
That works on both sides of the equation, as someone who lived both in NA and Morocco. There's similar levels of unreported crime.
Re:Waymo CEO dismisses Tesla self-driving plan: “This is not... by ohgodplsno on Monday January 25, 2021 @02:19AM (#25900286)
You seem to think that data being sent to a server will stop physical theft. That's an... Optimistic point of view to say the least.