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Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by paxys on Friday January 22, 2021 @06:34PM (#25877723)
People are mentioning technical & payment processing hurdles, but those are all easy to figure out. Look at the gaming industry, mobile app stores, iTunes, online gambling, toll booths, tipping on various online platforms. Micropayments are most definitely already a thing, and have been for a while.

A better version of your question is – why do newspapers charge for a monthly subscription instead of a per-article fee? The simple reason is that the numbers just don't work out. They'd have to charge a lot per article and have people pay for a lot of them to break even with the current subscription or ad-supported model, and that's not going to happen. And even if it does, there would just be too much day-to-day variance in sales. The reason subscriptions are popular is that businesses like a steady, predictable stream of revenue.

Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by benlivengood on Friday January 22, 2021 @07:02PM (#25878021)
> A better version of your question is – why do newspapers charge for a monthly subscription instead of a per-article fee? The simple reason is that the numbers just don't work out. They'd have to charge a lot per article and have people pay for a lot of them to break even with the current subscription or ad-supported model, and that's not going to happen. And even if they do, there would just be too much day-to-day variance in sales. The reason subscriptions are popular is that businesses like a steady, predictable stream of revenue.

What the newspapers need is something like ASCAP that can act as a single revenue management entity for microtransactions. What no one wants is to have 30 news subscriptions, and so what actually happens is everyone has ~zero news subscriptions. It's happening with video now too as Disney+, HBO, Prime, Netflix, etc. are each fighting over limited monthly subscriptions to segmented markets as opposed to Spotify, Pandora, etc. being gateways to one large market.

I don't know the details of how or why ASCAP has managed to do for the music industry what pretty much no other industry has been able to achieve. ASCAP isn't even exclusively licensed.

Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by freeone3000 on Friday January 22, 2021 @11:05PM (#25879538)
> ASCAP isn't even exclusively licensed

I think this might actually be the innovation here. Artists can use their normal distribution channels, and also sign up for ASCAP because, why not, it's free money. If enough people do this, they become a very useful distributor simply due to the size of their catalog.

Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by Grustaf on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:32PM (#25893834)
> why do newspapers charge for a monthly subscription instead of a per-article fee? The simple reason is that the numbers just don't work out.

Is this really true though? Aren't ad prices very very low, how much do those dubious ads pay that appear next to the articles we read? Surely not that much?

Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by m-p-3 on Friday January 22, 2021 @08:15PM (#25878538)
> Look at the gaming industry, [...] Micropayments are most definitely already a thing, and have been for a while.

They'll do whatever it can to make a penny in this cutthroat industry and especially on mobile, so losing a significant portion on transaction fees is better than nothing to them.

In other industries, it's better to maximize your transactions ROI and reduce them to a minimum, even if it means making the payment a bigger amount that covers a longer subscription period. They'll even offer a promotional rate if you take a yearly subscription instead of monthly.

Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by suifbwish on Saturday January 23, 2021 @06:38PM (#25887201)
Ultimately micro transactions make less money than subscriptions because of human psychology. When you are charged a flat rate per unit you consume, you tend to consume less because you know the cost is proportionate to your action. They receive immediate positive feedback that their consumption has a negative consequence: cost. The profit in this model is limited by not only the rate of consumption but also for the rate at which the consumer learns not to consume. With the monthly model, the cost per unit gets cheaper as the consumer consumes more of the service experience, allowing the user to “intend” to utilize more than they are paying for but in reality with a majority of the platforms userbase, the opposite happens. This leads to a system where the actual cost calculation is abstracted from the user and they are left with just the question of whether they can afford the maximum cost per time period or not.
Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by phoinix on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:15PM (#25878904)
At the gaming industry, noone i know of that plays chess has implemented this. At Lichess there millions and billions of games played each month and they don't pay with micropayments for each game. Other chess websites charge monthly fee.

Micropayments are a hassle for any system that has people, actual human organisms, being responsible for a gazillion of small transactions. The involvement of a human increases the cost of each money transaction. Only for detecting and resolving fraud a human needs to spend minutes and hours of his life, his boss has to pay him at the end of the day, and that cost bubbles up to the consumer. Minimum fees have be to many cents or dollars for each transaction, so the micropayment starts to not being a micropayment, it starts to seem very much like a payment.

The only solution to that, is a fully automated money transfer mechanism, an immutable public ledger with all the pseudonymous transactions, i.e. bitcoin. The miner network ensures the validity of the transactions, that no malicious actor in the whole network change one bit of a transaction to his benefit. Humans can do that, have done that for centuries in the banking system, by hiring trusted employees, and by following protocols to ensure the validity of each transaction, papers with stamps and all of that.

Micropayments can help for a person to change a light in the street, and charging all the residents around, a thousand of them, for 1 cent each. 10 dollars he will receive in total, 5 dollars for his work, 5 for the light bulb, and he will be paid the minute the work is done. No need to give a corrupt politician 10 million dollars, for all the work in his municipality, and the politician afterwards he will pay the technician for the fixing of the light. That creates a honey pot ready to be exploited. Micropayments can make that honeypot disappear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Ef6I7R0zY

Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by 0xy on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:54PM (#25879127)
That's because the average chess player would rather pay a $9.99/month subscription than pay $0.10/game. Even if they played less than 100 games a month this would be true.

Consumers despise paying for usage. They'd rather pay a monthly fee and have unlimited usage.

Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by phoinix on Friday January 22, 2021 @10:08PM (#25879208)
Consumers are different with one another. I would gladly pay, for something i like, a bit more money to have some luxuries. A faster car may be it, or maybe i pay to lichess, to pair me for a game with good players, so as not to be cheated for example. Or maybe analysing my games, with some state of the art chess engine to spot mistakes or improvements. Other chess players however may not be so keen about more, just play a game and that's it.
Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by setr on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:25PM (#25878959)
The common solution to the flat-cost-per-transaction problem is to use not-money. Do microtransactions with company script, and buy the script in bulk units (eg 100 NYT coins for $5)

Which is generally how games do it

Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by auxym on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:54PM (#25879125)
FYI, I think you mean "scrip".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrip

Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by setr on Friday January 22, 2021 @11:27PM (#25879646)
You’re correct.
Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by phoinix on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:32PM (#25878995)
Yeah of course, but that's and IOU, it is not a micropayment. Transaction means that the money/tokens are transferred right away. In the example i gave with the light technician happens the same thing. He completes his work and it is the promise of the state that he will be paid at some time in the future. That's called IOU not a payment transaction. It is the promise given only, albeit by a big company we trust, or a state we trust. Or we don't.
Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by dragonwriter on Friday January 22, 2021 @09:45PM (#25879063)
> Yeah of course, but that's and IOU, it is not a micropayment

If I pay for something with a credit card, that's a payment transaction. It also involves (a whole chain of) IOUs.

Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by paxys on Friday January 22, 2021 @10:04PM (#25879192)
Look at how much money Fortnite, GTA Online, FIFA, Clash of Clans etc. are making. If there is a business justification for it then every problem you mentioned above will be solved.
Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by phoinix on Friday January 22, 2021 @10:28PM (#25879333)
Human fraud is not an easy problem to solve. Micropayments can enable a fraudster to commit microfrauds, and by the time someone else finds about it, it's too late. The incentive of internet companies to solve it is huge, i however argue that the best way to solve it, is with an immutable public ledger fully automated which records pseudonymous transactions. Fully automated by proof of work machines, and no human involvement in the transactions.
Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by Grustaf on Sunday January 24, 2021 @12:55PM (#25894038)
> Micropayments are a hassle for any system that has people, actual human organisms, being responsible for a gazillion of small transactions.

When you visit any website, a dozen or so companies are charged tiny amounts of money for showing their ads to you. Charging a single entity, the reader, is much less complicated. So it's not a technical limitation.

Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by ThePhysicist on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:46AM (#25881021)
In Germany there are sites like "Stifung Warentest" (a mostly neutral product testing organization) that charge one-time fees of 5-10 € for accessing test reports for specific product categories, e.g. mattresses. I bought some of these in the past, they also offer regular subscriptions but since most people are only intermittently interested in specific product tests I don't think they sell a lot of those. So it can work I'd say, just maybe not with your average run-of-the-mill 5-minute read news article.
Re:Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing? by BrandoElFollito on Saturday January 23, 2021 @06:24AM (#25881494)
We have something similar in France with a magazine (paper and online) that has the same business model ("60 millions de consommateurs").

Their independence/neutrality is the key differentiator.