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Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by lawn on Thursday January 21, 2021 @12:48PM (#25861700)
Craig produced a proof on a computer he himself provided. Wouldn't have been hard to alter it to say whatever he wanted to.
Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by sktrdie on Thursday January 21, 2021 @12:51PM (#25861740)
Indeed. I think Craig is a fraud. I'm just dumbfounded why Gavin --a person I admire from intial days and who is probably person n.2 after satoshi in terms of bitcoin actual initial lines of code written -- was so easily fooled.
Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Thursday January 21, 2021 @01:05PM (#25861934)
Just because people demonstrate remarkable skill or intelligence does not make them immune to the same cognitive biases shared by every human being on the planet. We are all susceptible to being fooled, and a lot more easily than we probably like to imagine.
Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by lawn on Thursday January 21, 2021 @01:03PM (#25861923)
Yeah it's hard to understand. Gavin's good nature of assuming good intentions from anyone is sure to play a big role.

Also worth to remember that anyone can get bamboozled, even if you're highly intelligent and knowledgeable in a certain area. Just look at how many cult followers there are in the world.

Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by vbezhenar on Thursday January 21, 2021 @02:25PM (#25862967)
It is easy to understand. Gavin wanted to say what he said. It does not mean that he thinks this is true. He just wanted those words to be out of his mouth. Now how to interpret this fact is another question. May be he wanted to distract public focus from another person. May be he was paid to say so. May be he was bored and did it for lolz.
Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by _jal on Thursday January 21, 2021 @01:09PM (#25861988)
It is usually easier to con smart people. Or in the alternative, being a bit thick can provide protection against fast talk.
Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by SkyMarshal on Thursday January 21, 2021 @03:02PM (#25863479)
Also book smart vs street smart. Gavin is book smart, but not street smart. Street smart people don’t get taken by conmen with flawed cons.
Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by marcosdumay on Thursday January 21, 2021 @01:44PM (#25862396)
Maybe because he didn't expect anybody to do a lot of work to convince him of a basically worthless fact.

How long have you spent verifying your own computing platform? However it is, it is never impossible that somebody can corrupt it and fool you about something.

Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by CydeWeys on Thursday January 21, 2021 @01:50PM (#25862486)
> he didn't expect anybody to do a lot of work to convince him of a basically worthless fact.

Being Satoshi seems like the exact opposite of a basically worthless fact.

Gavin was just being gullible. Being a good early developer on an important project isn't mutually exclusive with being gullible to social engineering.

Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by marcosdumay on Thursday January 21, 2021 @03:30PM (#25863810)
What does he lose if he guesses wrong?
Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by Melting_Harps on Thursday January 21, 2021 @04:06PM (#25864237)
> What does he lose if he guesses wrong?

Total credibility loss in the BTC community.

I could some how look past his indiscretions: calling himself 'chief Scientist' of an open source project, gate-keeping antics for pull requests, attempted forks with Hearn et al, his involvement with the foundation... He was still critical to the project for many years and not beyond redemption as open source project typically fork into other things for experimentation purposes that grow the project in the long term--Linux distros being a prime example.

But when he went public that he bought faketoshi's narrative it was clear he was beyond help, and that his meeting at the NSA was more than what any of us ever assumed and he was so compromised that nothing could help that anymore.

I hope he is mentally well, and I'm sure he has enough money to do what ever he wants in Life if he just kept a fraction of his coins, but other than I never want to see or hear from Gavin ever again.

Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by brohee on Thursday January 21, 2021 @04:01PM (#25864184)
Reputation obviously... He'll forever be "the guy who believed Craig"
Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by 153791098c on Thursday January 21, 2021 @02:07PM (#25862705)
He probably wasn't fooled, or actually, he got screwed by both sides. He knew CSW wasn't satoshi, also he knew adam back was satoshi but couldn't tell anyone because of the NDA he signed (adam had long been compromised at that point). I think he felt the only way to save the project was to point to someone else being satoshi that did believe in the original bitcoin = p2p cash narrative, but that obviously backfired. Craig also did a complete 180 on his 'beliefs' and made everything he touched proprietary, patented and anti-freedom and privacy. Hard to believe that happened without any external influences as well.

The history of bitcoin is a very interesting one. The video series of unmasking satoshi nakamoto from barely sociable is a great first step into the rabbit hole. But i'm warning you, the deeper you go the weirder it becomes.

Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by gruez on Thursday January 21, 2021 @02:39PM (#25863164)
>also he knew adam back was satoshi but couldn't tell anyone because of the NDA he signed (adam had long been compromised at that point).

uhh what?

Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by 153791098c on Thursday January 21, 2021 @03:41PM (#25863963)
After you watch the socialy bareable video it would probably make more sense. Makes it pretty clear that adam is satoshi (i would say with a 99% certainty). Adam says completely different things about bitcoin today than satoshi did all those years ago. It's not definite that he was compromised but him taking back control over the project with blockstream and the direction he steered it in makes it pretty clear to me.

On Gavin, that's also explained pretty well in the video, also this reddit quote from gavin says more than enough for me (this was under a post named "How Craig Wright probably tricked Gavin Andresen"): "I won't violate people's privacy or repeat things told to me under non-disclosure agreements, so I'm stuck-- I'm not going to say anything more, except I suspect someday the full story will come out (and it'll be made into a movie).

Of course, everything I was told could be a lie, and even professional magicians can be fooled sometimes (ever seen Penn & Teller's Fool Us show ?)."

Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by __blockcipher__ on Thursday January 21, 2021 @03:54PM (#25864101)
And yet you can explain Adam Back/Bitcoin Core/Blockstream's actions much more simply as them being insidious actors that wanted to take over the Bitcoin project in order to promulgate propaganda supporting ridiculously high transaction fees so that they could establish a for-profit company to extract the delta between how high the fees are and how low they need to be for bitcoin to actually be usable.

Sending a message from Satoshi's e-mail is very obviously not proof of identity. Satoshi needs to move coins or sign a message. That's the only acceptable proof.

You claim Adam Back is compromised because the things he writes and does are so contrary to Satoshi and what he believed in that it's the only explanation that would make a universe where Back is Satoshi make sense. I much prefer to believe (with better evidence, btw) that Back is just not Satoshi. Boom, no logical contradictions to resolve.

Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by 153791098c on Thursday January 21, 2021 @04:30PM (#25864549)
The connection with the very niche bmoney, the conspicuous absence of adam the years before and after bitcoin's release, his move to a tax haven, his creation of hashcash which is very similar to bitcoin, his deep knowledge of bitcoin's source code without having ever contributed to it with his bitcointalk posts, his writing style, and not many other people that would be able to pull it off...

Also even if he didn't create it, why did he never contribute to or interacted with the project? Why did he create a company that would make something he always wanted to create unusable? He even put this on his wikipedia page in 2007: "He has an interest in privacy technology, electronic cash (of the payer and payee anonymous type)..." and yet he is completely absent from bitcoin from 2009-2013 and sets up a company the completely defies everything that he wanted to create for years? It's completely illogical.

I know most of these arguments are from the video but come on. He is the perfect candidate. And i think you will not get much better evidence when someone doesn't want to be publicly known to be satoshi. But sure there is no 100% conclusive proof so believe whatever you want.

Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by lawn on Thursday January 21, 2021 @03:52PM (#25864085)
Adam Back? The guy who said we should use "tabs" instead of Bitcoin while we waited for Lightning Network to be finished?

I'm not kidding, here's the talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHc81OL_hk4&feature=youtu.be...

Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by Melting_Harps on Thursday January 21, 2021 @04:21PM (#25864431)
> Adam Back? The guy who said we should use "tabs" instead of Bitcoin while we waited for Lightning Network to be finished?

While I don't claim to know that Back was involved in the creation of Bitcoin, it's also really hard for me to understand why many people think Satoshi was just one person after all this time.

If anything Hal makes more sense and has way more circumstantial evidence if it was just a single person, but even then I don't think it matters much who was/were the thing we refer to as Satoshi Nakamoto and is actually a cool part of the mythology we've created over the years.

It's like something you'd expect from a Neal Stephenson or Daniel Suarez Book.

Because in the end, they don't matter anymore; it's gone so far from the original codebase that its entirely academic and quite honestly incredibly uninteresting in comparison to everything else that has been accomplished in this community. Though I argue much more could dhave been done if we didn't have to be derailed by this kind FakeToshi BS drama we so all too often in Bitcoin.

Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by zadler on Thursday January 21, 2021 @02:58PM (#25863406)
What are some good subsequent steps after the barely sociable vid?
Re:Bitcoincore.org removes Satoshi's whitepaper from website... by 153791098c on Thursday January 21, 2021 @04:33PM (#25864580)
The e-mails between Peter Todd John Dillon and the connection with Greg Maxwell and the FBI. There is a pastebin out there from 2013 which is mind blowing. (see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=335658.0)

But looking into what happened in 2015 with the introduction of blockstream, the core devs and the small block campaign. The massive censorship on all major bitcoin discussion platforms. introduction of RBF. the rise of Bitcoin XT and later classic and unlimited. The major signalling for Bitcoin Unlimited by businesses and miners and its subsequent DDOS attack. The segwit proposal with the subsequent Segwit2X proposal. The NY and Hongkong agreements. The BCH fork (and subsequent SV fork if you're interested in that side). The activation of Segwit and the UASF and anti S2X campaign. The complete narrative change shifting to digital gold, SoV and scrubbing anything related to the title of the whitepaper (p2p electronic cash). and so much more interesting stuff, much of the info can be found on reddit's /r/btc that has been scrubbed from other parts of the internet. warning: many info you will find on the subject will be biased one way or another so try to get info on these topics from different sources and make up your own mind.