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Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by skocznymroczny on Friday January 15, 2021 @05:02AM (#25788996)
The main issue of this is just like with touchbar and similar solutions - power users don't look at the keyboard, so the usefulness will be minimal.
Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by nottorp on Friday January 15, 2021 @05:33AM (#25789192)
And power users here doesn't mean only IT people, but anyone who uses some application all the time for some kind of work. Someone processing photos may not be able to touch type but they'll learn the keyboard shortcuts for their stuff in no time.
Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by gurkendoktor on Friday January 15, 2021 @06:32AM (#25789639)
Even professionals who don't learn to touch-type should at least use an external screen if they use a computer all day, at which point they'll likely use an external keyboard without a TouchBar again.
Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by toomanybeersies on Friday January 15, 2021 @06:11AM (#25789485)
I think HN is a bit unfairly biased against the touchbar, since it serves almost zero purpose for programming work.

However, it's quite handy when doing multimedia work with applications that integrate with the touchbar (Logic Pro, Final Cut Pro, Photoshop)

Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by geerlingguy on Friday January 15, 2021 @09:11AM (#25791093)
I spend hours a day in FCP and Photoshop. The ONLY thing it's useful for is scrubbing, but even there, I have other tools that are more helpful and don't take away F keys I can use as macros.

Many times more useful are tactile programmable keys like what I get on an Elgato Stream Deck, or other dedicated hardware. The touch bar is useless since it's one solid strip. Creatives don't like staring at their keyboards either.

Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by kristiandupont on Friday January 15, 2021 @06:26AM (#25789593)
Is this your experience or your assumption?

I was personally very excited when they announced the touchbar but having lived with it for 5 years now, I hate it. And I do a lot of media work, mostly in Ableton Live but also Adobe Lightroom and others.

I just bought a new Macbook Air and I was very happy that the feature of not having the bar was cheaper as it was something I would have gladly paid money for.

Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by toomanybeersies on Friday January 15, 2021 @06:43AM (#25789716)
For photoshop, which I'll admit I use infrequently, it's very handy.

I also use Ableton and Lightroom a reasonable amount (neither are my day job though), and am constantly left wishing that they integrated with the touchbar. I have a midi controller that I use for sliding controls in both when at my desk, but I don't take it when I'm out and about, which is where having the ability to adjust analog controls (sliders/dials) with the touchbar would be incredibly useful.

Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by revscat on Friday January 15, 2021 @12:10PM (#25793186)
I don’t hate it, I just ignore it. Most of the time my laptop is closed and attached to my monitor, so it’s unavailable. On the rare occasions I use it as a laptop, I might use the Touch Bar to adjust the volume, but not much else, if anything.
Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by gumby on Friday January 15, 2021 @10:24AM (#25791959)
It's for people who look at the keyboard when they type. I think it would be a godsend for the low end machines. Instead they put it on the high end machines and left it off the entry level ones -- completely backwards.

I personally never used the F keys for anything so don't really care if they are there or not (I use them just for brightness and mute) but the Touch Bar was too sensitive. And while I initially thought it would be cool to have an extra status display, a display someplace nobody ever looks is pretty useless.

Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by unethical_ban on Friday January 15, 2021 @11:38AM (#25792737)
It's for people who use the keyboard for more then typing! That's the point of the OP you responded to.

Computers are for more than essays and coding.

Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by Pokepokalypse on Friday January 15, 2021 @01:28PM (#25794248)
True - but multimedia folks can buy separate controls for their specific needs; (for example, I use a separate volume control knob; just to have a handy way to control volume; mainly because my external keyboard's volume buttons require fn-key which is annoying when I need to respond quickly to change volume or mute.

So the touch bar might be great for SOME purposes in multimedia, not for others; but a variety of VERY CHEAP peripherals are available for these purposes - no need for a one-size-fits-all integrated approach.

Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by reaperducer on Friday January 15, 2021 @12:46PM (#25793650)
It's for people who look at the keyboard when they type.

That's a pretty narrow view.

I've been a touch typer for many decades now (had to pass a minimum WPM score on an IBM Selectric to get my journalism degree), and I find the touchbar quite useful.

The problem is that you have to customize it. And the tools Apple supplies are inadequate.

In my case, I have a bunch of "keys" on the touchbar that trigger various macros.

Building a major change for one small set of users ("people who look at the keyboard") isn't how Apple does things.

Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by Karunamon on Friday January 15, 2021 @12:01PM (#25793057)
For me, the problem is that programs have a habit of putting buttons that do important things in the natural resting area of where my hands go.

Zoom, for instance, puts the mic, camera, and share desktop buttons right where f1-f3 should go. If they were actual keys it wouldn't matter, but since they're touch sensitive, I have to suddenly be very conscious of where I rest my hands or else risk sending content I do not want to a meeting.

Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by saagarjha on Friday January 15, 2021 @06:30AM (#25789619)
It's not completely useless for programming: for example, I use the button to stop an app in the debugger pretty often.
Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by jki275 on Friday January 15, 2021 @09:33AM (#25791348)
Those were F keys before, which I could put my finger on and use without having to hunt for the correct featureless spot on the Touch Bar every time I needed to step.
Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by rualca on Friday January 15, 2021 @08:36AM (#25790764)
> It's not completely useless for programming: for example, I use the button to stop an app in the debugger pretty often.

The hypothetical advantages of that usecase are negated by the lack of physical F-keys, which are critical to start/stop/step through code.

Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by mgkimsal on Friday January 15, 2021 @11:55AM (#25792962)
apple was never consistent - had they brought Touch Bar (and Touch ID) to external keyboard, I would have had more reason to adjust to it.
Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by oblio on Friday January 15, 2021 @05:48AM (#25789296)
They would be physical buttons, I don't understand your comment.
Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by TheSpiceIsLife on Friday January 15, 2021 @05:56AM (#25789362)
Why bother with screens on the keys if no one (read: power users) don't look at the keyboard

Personally I think key with screens on them sounds interesting / novel / fun, at least for a week or two, maybe longer.

Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by oblio on Friday January 15, 2021 @06:21AM (#25789545)
A lot of power users look at their keyboards. Touch typists are a very small minority, even among power users. At least pure touch typists (people who only touch type).

And these computers are not purely for power users.

Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by kumarsw on Friday January 15, 2021 @08:44AM (#25790852)
I wonder how many folks touch-type with the function keys. I touch-type, but I still need to look down to use the function keys.
Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by geerlingguy on Friday January 15, 2021 @09:14AM (#25791136)
I used to be able to touch type the speaker volume and mute F keys. With the slider or volume mute buttons, I often have a hard time hitting them correctly on the Touch Bar. This is after having it for years.
Re:New MacBook Pro models to feature magsafe, no touch bar a... by oblio on Friday January 15, 2021 @08:57AM (#25790960)
If they're grouped in blocks of 4 it's reasonably doable, especially for the ones at the edges of the blocks (for example F4 and F5 are popular buttons for IDEs and even browsers or other common applications).