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Re:Licensing changes to Elasticsearch and Kibana by bevacqua on Thursday January 14, 2021 @11:23AM (#25778226)
Elastic contributes massively to Lucene, so this is a false dichotomy
Re:Licensing changes to Elasticsearch and Kibana by freedomben on Thursday January 14, 2021 @12:01PM (#25778840)
Thanks for pointing this out.

Red Hat (my employer currently) is typically in the same boat here and it drives me crazy how people don't think about that before criticizing.

People love to say, "Red Hat couldn't exist without <project>" which is true, but what they don't realize is that a ton (sometimes all) of the development of that upstream project is done by Red Hat employees. Without that a lot of projects may not even exist.

There are no doubt "open source" companies that take more than they give, but it's a little more nuanced and complicated than people make it out to be.

Re:Licensing changes to Elasticsearch and Kibana by __blockcipher__ on Thursday January 14, 2021 @05:14PM (#25783479)
And guess what, when a corporation uses Elasticsearch in a serious way they will inevitably end up contributing back. It's actually easier to just get a change merged upstream rather than to manage a whole fork, unless the upstream is really hard to get patches merged with.

The whole narrative of "company X is offering Elasticsearch as a service and not contributing back!" is ridiculous. First of all, the whole point of free software is that somebody somewhere is going to be making money with that software, and that's okay, regardless of contribution. Second of all, in practice companies like Elastic will always exaggerate the extent to which corporations aren't "contributing back".

What they really mean is Amazon isn't contributing financially to Elastic Co. That's what they're pissed about, and that's why they clearly wish they were actually in the business of proprietary software (which they now are)

Re:Licensing changes to Elasticsearch and Kibana by catern on Thursday January 14, 2021 @11:32PM (#25787036)
>First of all, the whole point of free software is that somebody somewhere is going to be making money with that software, and that's okay, regardless of contribution.

No, the point of free software is that users of the software have the freedom to use the software, redistribute the software, modify the software, and redistribute modified versions of the software. Someone making money using those abilities is incidental to the actual goal.

Re:Licensing changes to Elasticsearch and Kibana by __blockcipher__ on Friday January 15, 2021 @03:33AM (#25788395)
I agree but you're really splitting hairs at this point, aren't you?
Re:Licensing changes to Elasticsearch and Kibana by oblio on Thursday January 14, 2021 @06:12PM (#25784316)
> It's actually easier to just get a change merged upstream rather than to manage a whole fork, unless the upstream is really hard to get patches merged with.

The thing is "really hard to get patches merged" is a fuzzy barrier. There are many, many example of what most would consider reasonably maintainers where companies just don't contribute back. Even in breach of GPL.

Re:Licensing changes to Elasticsearch and Kibana by ignoramous on Thursday January 14, 2021 @04:42PM (#25783036)
Would Elastic be in a position to "close source" / "re-license" their code if Lucene itself wasn't permissively licensed? Your argument's putting the cart before the horse.
Re:Licensing changes to Elasticsearch and Kibana by dodobirdlord on Friday January 15, 2021 @12:44AM (#25787440)
No, offering your code under Apache/MIT is a bell you can't unring. You can stop offering future changes under the license, but everything up to the point where you change the license is available forever.
Re:Licensing changes to Elasticsearch and Kibana by paxys on Thursday January 14, 2021 @07:03PM (#25784954)
When then is SSPL still enforced on those who contribute to Elasticsearch?