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Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by _jal on Monday January 11, 2021 @12:36PM (#25732469)
99.9% of people were not him.

> law enforcement did not drive him to suicide

People can keep repeating this, and it will still be false. LEO and Prosecutor action was the proximate cause of his actions.

You can make moral arguments that, say, the prosecutor was Just Doing His Job, and I may even agree with you. But you and everyone else are simply wrong about cause and effect, and attempting to blur that tells me more about your priors and biases than anything about the situation.

Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by manfredo on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:34PM (#25733617)
A substantial number of people commit suicide following loss of one's job. Would you feel it's fair to say that their bosses drove them to suicide?

I'd say no. Most of such cases, like Swartz, had existing mental conditions that are primarily responsible for their decision to commit suicide. Loss of a job may have been the event that ultimately prompted the act, but the driving factors were mental conditions. Saying that these people were driven to suicide conflates these cases with like this where someone is actively driving someone else to suicide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Conrad_Roy

Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by _jal on Monday January 11, 2021 @02:08PM (#25734472)
People are obsessed with blame. Get over it. This isn't about blame or guilt. It is about cause and effect.

I think it is "fair" to describe action B as following from action A, when there is good reason to consider them related.

If you revise your observations of reality based on what you fear might happen later, you're not observing reality.

Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by xadhominemx on Monday January 11, 2021 @12:42PM (#25732600)
Aaron’s story is good example of why blaming the suicide of someone with severe depression on whatever proximate cause triggered the act is the wrong way to understand why someone takes their own life. Many suicides are prompted by trivial or very temporary situations that are not at fault.
Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by WarOnPrivacy on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:13PM (#25733167)
> Many suicides are prompted by trivial or very temporary situations that are not at fault.

I am part of a support group that is dominated by people who've attempted suicide.

The words trivial and temporary don't describe any part of their journey.

What is common, is how these people were harmed by the self-interested and misguided actions of others.

Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by vlovich123 on Monday January 11, 2021 @12:50PM (#25732742)
That presumed that the whole trial wasn’t the cause of the mental issues. I’m sure that facing an immoral DOJ out for blood caused him a lot of stress and depression (or triggered any latent issues).
Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by FDSGSG on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:00PM (#25732920)
It's rather well documented that Aaron had been thinking about suicide long before getting mixed up with the DOJ http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/341150
Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by vlovich123 on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:22PM (#25733311)
Did you actually read that link? He wrote the alleged “suicide note” in a moment where he was suffering from extreme physical pain as that was his way of expressing it to give himself some mental release. On top of all of that he was dealing with getting fired which itself can be a mindfuck.

To me the proximate cause 100% was the legal case against him - it inflamed any underlying issues and they just kept pressing. I could be wrong of course but I don’t think anyone will ever truly know what was happening in his head.

Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by FDSGSG on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @06:36AM (#25745489)
I did read that link. People without mental issues don't tend to post suicide notes, regardless of whatever physical pain or employment issues they might be facing.

It's fairly clear that Swartz had a history of suicidal ideation, this wasn't of the DoJs making no matter how unfairly they may have treated him.

>To me the proximate cause 100% was the legal case against him - it inflamed any underlying issues and they just kept pressing. I could be wrong of course but I don’t think anyone will ever truly know what was happening in his head.

Obviously the cause was his preexisting mental issues, a healthy individual would not kill themselves in his situation.

Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by vlovich123 on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @01:10PM (#25750835)
Suicidal ideation is regular & there's a very clear step jump function in how its treated by psychotherapists vs a genuine intent to commit suicide. Until you make concrete plans to harm yourself or others, ideation is just that. Most people keep it private but I don't believe there's any literature that indicates that voicing that ideation publicly somehow makes you more likely to actually enact it.
Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by WarOnPrivacy on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @10:34AM (#25748167)
You're arguing that DoJ didn't create the opportunity for Aaron to kill himself, they merely seized upon it and got an even stronger outcome than they were hoping for.
Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by WarOnPrivacy on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:22PM (#25733310)
It's not clear how that addresses DoJ's highly unethical choice to stack 52 years of federal prison time.
Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by kortilla on Monday January 11, 2021 @12:58PM (#25732888)
If you go down the path of blaming external factors for suicides it’s going to get messy pretty fast. How many suicides were because of Eminem songs? How many suicides were because of the lack of suicide nets on the Golden Gate Bridge? How many suicides are because of a break up?

Whose fault was Epstein’s suicide?

Robin William’s?

R. Budd Dwyer?

Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by Shared404 on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:10PM (#25733116)
> Whose fault was Epstein’s suicide?

You all know what I'm going to say here.

As for the rest, it's a fine line. There are obviously individual variances in how much it would take to push someone over the edge, I can certainly see how nine felonies would be enough in the case of Aaron's example.

Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by _jal on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:01PM (#25732949)
I'll just quote myself,

> attempting to blur that tells me more about your priors and biases than anything about the situation

And right on cue, here comes someone who would rather talk about Eminem and Epstein to blur the situation than talk about the actual situation.

Re:Tell HN: Aaron Swartz died today, 8 years ago by kortilla on Saturday January 23, 2021 @04:28AM (#25880918)
Attempting to deflect tells me you know that blaming others for suicides is a dangerous and dumb path to go down.