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Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by ineedasername on Sunday January 10, 2021 @11:03PM (#25724323)
They weren't criminal punishments. They were enforcements of ToS agreements. There's no need for an arrest, a conviction, or even a crime for them to ban users who violate ToS agreements. And, it being their own ToS, they don't need a court or any 3rd party to render judgment: they are the arbiter and interpreter of their own ToS and the enforcement actions taken.
Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by Andrew_nenakhov on Sunday January 10, 2021 @11:15PM (#25724412)
Yeah yeah those ToS, the new founding document of the United States of America.

One little warning from someone living in a real fascist state (Russia). It wasn't always a fascist state, but when it began to morph into one, censorship what what they started with. Of course, it was legal, because it was all private companies, rightfully executing their liberty to not show anyone they don't like...

The rich irony, of course, is that regular fascist masses that support government are brainwashed to think, they it is the marginalized opposition who are fascists.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by ineedasername on Sunday January 10, 2021 @11:51PM (#25724676)
So the government should instead step in and decide what companies can and can't do with their own services & infrastructure? That sounds a lot more fascist to me than a company saying, up front, "Here's the rules for using our service. Violate them and you can take your business elsewhere."

And considering the ToS citations were I service of a potentially criminal act, fascism doesn't enter the picture: This is as much about these companies' own legal liability if they allow their platform to facilitate potential criminal activity even though it's against their own rules.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by manigandham on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:48AM (#25725544)
> "So the government should instead step in"

That's called regulation. We have a lot of it. Free speech isn't absolute and free markets aren't either.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by ineedasername on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:24AM (#25742660)
free speech isn't absolute

I think your making my point. Your freedom of speech doesn't entitle you to use it on the stage built by someone else.

Free markets aren't either

Again, that doesn't contradict me. It would take a fundamental adjustment to the legal framework surrounding either user licensing agreements or the definition of public utilities in order to say these companies aren't allowed to enforce their current ToS.

If you want to argue that laws should change, that's fine, but then we're talking about a slider between the definition & right to own private property on the one hand, and freedom of speech using 3rd party's property on the other hand. If you want to slide it more towards the later, you are taking away from the former, and vice versa. I don't know any formula for where that line should be drawn, only that in this particular example I believe the line drawn was acceptable.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by manigandham on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @08:39AM (#25746666)
Of course we're talking about what should happen; that's even the word you used in your first post.

Public utilities and antitrust are not new concepts, nor is this really a private property issue. It's about power and control over our private lives (which should come first before corporations). The internet has changed everything in less than 2 decades and laws from a century ago are no longer sufficient.

When governments start asking for social media accounts at border crossings, and Twitter claims to be a public square, and even it's CEO says that social media is a human right; we need to address the new digital equivalence of our existing protections.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by Andrew_nenakhov on Monday January 11, 2021 @12:09AM (#25724809)
> Violate them and you can take your business elsewhere.

Here, I fixed it for you:

Violate them, and if you are not someone whose political views we support, you can take your business elsewhere.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by edmundsauto on Monday January 11, 2021 @03:14AM (#25726139)
As has been said elsewhere, this is not about disagreeing with someone’s political views. This is about not amplifying a voice that incites a mob to attack congress and overturn an election.

And they aren’t even banning people for solely the latter! Representatives who continue to support the president have had no issues.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by jeltz on Monday January 11, 2021 @07:40AM (#25728110)
But when mainstream media published lies to support the Iraq War nobody was banned because to served the interests of the government. Or when Facebook was used as a platform for inciting etjinc violence in Burma. No, this is all about selective enforcement against people we do not like.

For the record I hate Trump and am a European Social Democrat.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by ineedasername on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:37AM (#25742743)
Mainstream media didn't lie about the Iraq war, they were lied to about it.

Facebook is a US company with a lot more eyes on US activity than in Burma. They're going to see, understand, and react to events in the US much more easily than anywhere else in the world.

That isn't me condoning Facebook's activity here: they need to do a better job elsewhere in the world. What I'm saying is that their failure may be just that: a failure, not selective enforcement.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by edmundsauto on Monday January 11, 2021 @08:52PM (#25741261)
Did Twitter and FB's newsfeed exist when the NY Times was spreading their misinformation? (For context - were they promoting what they were told by the gov't, or were they caught lying on their own?)
Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by Andrew_nenakhov on Monday January 11, 2021 @04:16AM (#25726543)
So, only Congress is shielded from angry mobs by ToS, other, good mobs are ok and are allowed?
Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by edmundsauto on Monday January 11, 2021 @08:51PM (#25741253)
No, why would you make that leap?
Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by ineedasername on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:30AM (#25742691)
If political views or personal bias were the deciding factor, Bezos wouldn't have let the National Enquirer continue using AWS after it tried to blackmail him with genital selfies.

The issue here is that the platforms were used in service of activity that was arguably illegal. These platforms' failure to enforce their rules consistently doesn't mean they shouldn't have enforced them in this case, it means they should have been doing a better job all along. If you want to pass laws regarding platforms like this and free speech, it should be regulations that encourage more consistency, not less moderation of content.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by ineedasername on Monday January 11, 2021 @06:28PM (#25739628)
It's not Twitter's fault that a lot more extreme right people with violent or racist views have suddenly spoke out. That doesn't make Twitter biased.
Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by stale2002 on Monday January 11, 2021 @01:09AM (#25725243)
> So the government should instead step in and decide what companies can and can't do with their own services & infrastructure?

They already do this in many places.

The most common example would be common carrier laws. Those aren't particularly controversial.

Do you believe that common carrier laws are some huge infringement on company rights or something?

Do you believe that common carrier laws are "fascist"?

If not, then you must admit that your previous argument is pretty silly.

Re:Stripe bans Trump campaign by ineedasername on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:47AM (#25742825)
I believe common carrier laws don't apply to these platforms. If they did, common carrier laws would still not prevent these platforms from removing users that were inciting illegal acts.

In particular though, common carrier laws tend to apply to services that have been given a special privilege to have for their own use some type of public resource or special privilege. Like broadcasting frequencies or the right-of-way granted to power companies and other utilities. That isn't the case for these platforms.