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Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by FpUser on Monday January 04, 2021 @02:20AM (#25628582)
>"If you can't sell that, then you are either not solving the right problem"

Interesting. When I act as a client and looking to buy me some software the first things I am looking for:

  1) Does it have perpetual license for at least the version I am about to buy.

  2) Can it work offline?
Answer either of 2 no and I am not buying it. Well this of course excludes things like Netflix. The product I make offers either either perpetual license or subscriptions so the customer gets to choose. So far perpetual license revenue exceeds that of subscriptions.
Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by onion2k on Monday January 04, 2021 @03:17AM (#25628837)
Why would you care about having unlimited access to an app that doesn't necessarily do what you need it to do? That's what we're talking about here - all the MVP should do is the absolute minimum to solve the problem it sets out to solve, and as a customer you don't know if it actually does that until either you've tried it, or you have validation from other people who've tried it.

No one should be worried about perpetual licenses or offline support for an app that hasn't proven it even solves the problem in a viable way yet. If those things are key to your purchasing decision then you probably ought to be buying from established businesses with proven products and good support, and that is definitely not any startup I know.

I suspect your comment betrays the fact that you think the first version of a startup's software is the first finished and stable version. That's the main problem here. Startups need to be selling long before they're at that stage.

Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by FpUser on Monday January 04, 2021 @07:50AM (#25630641)
>"Why would you care about having unlimited access to an app that doesn't necessarily do what you need it to do?"

This is completely empty and made up argument. For every piece of software with perpetual license you can normally get evaluation version. Download and evaluate to your heart's content. Normally it is 30 days but I have not had one case in my live when vendor refused to extend eval period when asked.

Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by kace91 on Monday January 04, 2021 @03:44AM (#25628954)
Counterpoint: that guy right there is your user. He's the guy you're selling to.

If he doesn't think you're worth the money... You can say gravity is wrong all you want, you're still hitting the floor.

Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by onion2k on Monday January 04, 2021 @04:18AM (#25629134)
He's the guy you're selling to.

He wants a different product with features that aren't in the MVP. He absolutely is not the person I'd be selling to. If it turns out that I can't find customers selling what I think is the right product for the market then I might have to pivot to build what he wants, but until then he's just someone who isn't my potential market right now.

Startup sales is about getting the customer to buy in before the product is exactly right for them. Changing your product to suit whatever the person in front of you wants is massively distracting, often bad for the product, and doesn't guarantee a sale anyway.

If he doesn't think you're worth the money..

The product not being what someone wants only means it's not worth the money for them. That doesn't mean the product isn't worth it for anyone. You need to find the person who wants what you have right now despite it not being perfect, and who is willing to pay for what you have on the basis that it'll become what they need in the future.

Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by burnthrow on Monday January 04, 2021 @03:55AM (#25629008)
It's rather unlikely that an anon on social media (HN) is "the guy you're selling to." Possible, but there are so many other motivations for a critical comment. "The guy you're selling to" is tangible and clearly has money to spend to solve a real problem.
Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by eloisant on Monday January 04, 2021 @04:22AM (#25629152)
If there is anything I've learned on social media, is that when you pitch an idea on Internet you can have hundreds of people swearing they'll buy your product day 1 if it has x, y or z. When the time comes to pull out the credit card however, suddenly everyone is gone.
Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by kristianp on Monday January 04, 2021 @02:28AM (#25628612)
Typical hacker news answer, There's always someone to come along and have the exact opposite opinion. :) But seriously, I can understand the preference for offline, non-subscription software, it's often cheaper and it's often faster. Non subscription doesn't provide for a steady revenue stream for the developer, however.
Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by FpUser on Monday January 04, 2021 @12:35PM (#25634852)
>"Non subscription doesn't provide for a steady revenue stream for the developer, however."

Developer is not entitled to that "steady revenue stream". Keep working and releasing new products / features that customers are willing to pay for and you'll be fine.

Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by coldtea on Monday January 04, 2021 @04:24AM (#25629161)
>Answer either of 2 no and I am not buying it.

Well, this makes you irrelevant as a target customer in this heavy subscription/SaaS 2020 market.

There are others like you. But not many enough to make it worth focusing on them, plus they'd be more picky and have all kinds of other demands too that regular users don't have.

Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by FpUser on Monday January 04, 2021 @12:42PM (#25634985)
>"Well, this makes you irrelevant as a target customer in this heavy subscription/SaaS 2020 market."

My personal opinion is that this business model is simply not sustainable long term except for cases where the subscription model is a natural choice (Netflix for example). If I had to pay subscription for every piece of software I own I'd be ruined. With perpetual licenses however I only update / upgrade when I feel there is a benefit in it for me. Otherwise that old copy keeps working. I suspect I am not alone here.

As for not being relevant: so far I do not feel any lack of software offerings with perpetual licenses so allow me to disagree. I maybe irrelevant to your strict business model but not to the overall market.

Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by coldtea on Monday January 04, 2021 @04:35PM (#25638460)
>If I had to pay subscription for every piece of software I own I'd be ruined.

That's a very good point.

But also neither here, nor there. That's here the market seems to go, and it seems to indeed want us all ruined.

Or, rather, living paycheck to paycheck to pay those things...

Re:20 months, 2K hours, 200K € lost. A story about resilienc... by FpUser on Monday January 04, 2021 @06:17PM (#25639625)
I have this what I consider healthy attitude: I do not really give a flying fuck about what market wants. It seems that the guys like myself are still served really well. As for what happens in the future we'll see. I am tired to count how many times said marked had to correct its wet dreams.