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Re:My Experience at Apple by lordnacho on Friday January 01, 2021 @02:58PM (#25606312)
I think for most people the question is whether there are reasons to think Apple's internal environment fosters this kind of behaviour.

You can imagine a company of that size has a huge number of teams, some where everything is just dandy, some with terrible issues like yours and the author's.

But is there something corporate-wide about Apple that makes you think what you went through was common, or the opposite (ie that you were unlucky)?

You can ask the same about all the large techs.

Re:My Experience at Apple by arcatech on Friday January 01, 2021 @03:18PM (#25606576)
The internal culture was influenced by Steve Jobs. He was widely known for being an asshole who also happened to be an excellent salesman with a really good design sense.

That's Apple.

Re:My Experience at Apple by throwaway8193 on Friday January 01, 2021 @04:25PM (#25607345)
Exactly--Jobs was a raging asshole, and that became what the managers looked up to as the example of what brings success. During my time there, the assholes were the ones rewarded and promoted, and thus became the promoters, and the people with a shred of decency and empathy who just wanted to be good and do good work were marginalized and not rewarded. It's up and down the chain from VP level down to the first level managers.
Re:My Experience at Apple by m0llusk on Friday January 01, 2021 @04:37PM (#25607434)
That isn't really true. Steve Jobs was no nonsense, but was most often merely direct rather than rude.

One thing which Steve Jobs did do was go to great length to assemble highly qualified teams for missions that were clearly stated and understood and which all involved agreed were worthwhile even if there might be quibbles over details. The Apple that rescued itself from near death with colorful and fun designs and then released a BSD derived OS was very different from the modern Apple where contributors joust for top status without much if any existential threat.

Re:My Experience at Apple by microtherion on Friday January 01, 2021 @09:21PM (#25609655)
Jobs himself was abusive. But in his second stint at Apple, he generally worked through layers of management who bore the brunt of his abusiveness, and oddly enough, for the most part, his managers did not emulate his abusive ways. The two members of senior management that I had a chance to interact with for some time (Bertrand Serlet and Jony Ive) did not at all strike me as abusive.

One of the reasons, I suspect, is that for all his flaws, Jobs was not particularly fond of flattery and imitation, and he did not want to surround himself with mini-mes. I can think of only one member of senior management who could have been described as having somewhat Jobs-like tendencies, and even he was not that close a resemblance.

Re:My Experience at Apple by ex_Apple_throw on Saturday January 02, 2021 @03:14AM (#25611249)
Next time you see Jony Ive, tell him that it was his fault that I had to work in a hellhole when Apple told me that our team were "guinea pigs" for the new spaceship building. That was all his work. They took my office away and replaced it with a panopticon prison-style environment where everything was glass, with no curtains for the external windows, a black globe surveillence camera right above/next to me. Every 2 minutes someone would walk by, distracting me. I couldn't see my screens because of the windows behind me with no curtains, so I was being blinded by the sun. They didn't even provide a bookshelf for my programming-related books. AND they never once asked me about my experience in that "office." I found three (sorry, but OBESE/UGLY) individuals constantly walking around and pointing at things - I followed them around and those were Ive's employees examining the horrible workplace they were creating. That was all Ive's fault. Then they forced us to be in the "office" every day instead of working remotely like I had for years. In his words, "And I know how we work and you don't!" RIGHT. Well, I left that job after 15 years while in that crap environnment. That's when I lost all respect for Jony Ive.
Re:My Experience at Apple by dingaling on Friday January 01, 2021 @05:35PM (#25607952)
Direct is basically a euphemism for rude, in that it indicates lack of empathy. It might not intentionally be so, but usually shows that the speaker puts other priorities ahead of the emotional state of the recipient.
Re:My Experience at Apple by andreilys on Friday January 01, 2021 @06:00PM (#25608197)
One can be both empathetic and direct.

Jobs was highly empathetic, it’s why he was able to understand the customer so well and why he was famous for saying “the customer doesn’t know what they want”.

Understanding someone’s emotional state does not mean you need to coddle them.

Re:My Experience at Apple by heavenlyblue on Friday January 01, 2021 @07:38PM (#25608974)
I have found that people who harbour opinions like these usually just aren’t very good at realising how bad they are at what they are doing in the first place. So they need the niceness to keep the false assumption that they are not that bad.

Sometimes the emotional state of the recipient is just a function of how grown up they are.

Re:My Experience at Apple by rgarrett88 on Friday January 01, 2021 @08:40PM (#25609366)
Read his biography. He was abusive and got shit done.
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Re:My Experience at Apple by dang on Saturday January 02, 2021 @03:07PM (#25615998)
Your comments have been breaking the site guidelines. Please read and follow them: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Perhaps you don't owe Steve Jobs et. al. better, but you owe this community better if you're posting here. Much better.

Re:My Experience at Apple by 3131s on Sunday January 03, 2021 @11:35PM (#25627956)
The quality of my comments lately is quite low, I'll give you that.

You're actually more than welcome to delete the account, aren't you guys supposed to allow that anyway under GDPR (for Europeans at least)?

Re:My Experience at Apple by coldtea on Friday January 01, 2021 @03:51PM (#25606938)
Sure, but I've never read an as-toxic Jobs story / exchange, as the things in this story...
Re:My Experience at Apple by vp8989 on Friday January 01, 2021 @03:16PM (#25606543)
The secretive nature of their product development and the supposed "allure" of being an employee there seem like they would combine to enable particularly douchey forms of management.