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Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by downrightmike on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @12:20PM (#25572115)
They are kept in camps, monitored constantly, have no privacy, are searched constantly and on top of that, they are forced to work or go to detention. That is slavery. There's also the problem with them getting gutted for the organ transplants that China's own doctors have reported to be 4 times higher than they should be for the population size. So it is work, or go to detention and possibly get gutted.
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by JoshTko on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @12:36PM (#25572304)
What sources are you getting the organ transplants information from?
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by TimTheTinker on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @12:55PM (#25572556)
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by FartyMcFarter on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @03:02PM (#25574124)
Directly from Enver Tohti, a Chinese doctor who was involved in organ harvesting:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/surgeon-cla...

> But when Tohti arrived at the destination, he was shocked to find at least 10 prisoners had been shot in a field by a firing squad.

> Armed police waved the surgeon and his medical team over and directed them to a man lying unconscious on blood-soaked ground.

> Tohti said: “He’d been shot in the right-hand side of the chest but was still alive.

> “I told my chief surgeon he wasn’t dead but he ordered me to remove the man’s liver and kidneys there and then – and to be quick about it. I was ordered not to give the man any anaesthetic.”

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by downrightmike on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @04:36PM (#25575348)
Fuck, that is way worse that I had heard. JFC
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by scrps on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:04PM (#25572685)
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by mgh2 on Wednesday December 30, 2020 @09:21PM (#25588885)
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by lgvld on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:00PM (#25572643)
I often hear that uyghurs organs are sold as pure/halal organs to muslims from Saudi Arabia (and other rich muslims countries). If it is true -- and I think it is -- that is indeed absolutly abominable.

https://www.saveuighur.org/the-economics-of-chinas-organ-har...

https://theircc.org/organharvesting/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by mgh2 on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @12:58PM (#25572603)
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by hcurtiss on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @12:48PM (#25572455)
Odd to me that your question -- a genuine question -- would be downvoted.
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by zenexer on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:11PM (#25572810)
Probably because it’s received quite a bit of attention. If you’ve been reading HN for a while, particularly articles about the recent injustices in China, you’ve likely already encountered such claims.
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by bwilli123 on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @02:35PM (#25573821)
"They are kept in camps, monitored constantly, have no privacy, are searched constantly and on top of that, they are forced to work or go to detention..." An Amazon warehouse is already 90% there then.
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by Lutger on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:43PM (#25573233)
Don't forget tortured, gang raped and sterilized.
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by amscanne on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:00PM (#25572638)
> They are kept in camps, monitored constantly, have no privacy, are searched constantly and on top of that, they are forced to work or go to detention

This also seems to describe prison labor that occurs in the US, which, putting problems and criticisms aside, is definitely different from slavery. I don't think the imprecision in language is helpful, it hurts the cause in the same way people constantly referring to modern political leaders as literal Nazis hurts their credibility.

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by YawningAngel on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:13PM (#25572847)
It isn't clear to me that prison labour in the US is meaningfully distinct from slavery
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by dpifke on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @02:01PM (#25573425)
It isn't, which is why the 13th amendment (which bans other forms of slavery) explicitly permits it.

Some members from both houses of Congress have recently proposed a constitutional amendment to change this:

https://www.merkley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/The%20Abolition...

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by bigbubba on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:27PM (#25573040)
Because it isn't. It's distinct from chattel slavery, which is not the only form of slavery. Bonded labor is the most common form of slavery today, and is also not chattel slavery.
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by throwaway201103 on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @02:11PM (#25573546)
Except for the due process trial, conviction, and sentencing.
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by downrightmike on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @04:41PM (#25575389)
yeah, that's the way it is justified, repaying debts to society.
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Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by wizzwizz4 on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:15PM (#25572865)
> The Thirteenth Amendment (Amendment XIII) to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...

This doesn't say “prison labor is slavery”; it says that prison labor is allowed to be slavery. You should've provided some reference to e.g. a news article to back up your claim.

It's legal to paint yourself blue and write obscenities on your face and walk into a library, but that isn't evidence that anyone does it. (Likewise, it's legal to make people pay you fifty times the inflation-adjusted value of a loan you gave them – things being legal isn't evidence that they don't happen, which would be absurd.)

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by bigbubba on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:18PM (#25572909)
Forced labor is slavery, full stop. This was recognized by the men who wrote the 13th amendment. It is not "definitely different". And no, paying a slave does not make it 'not slavery.' Slaves have been paid paltry sums some of the time throughout history. It's still slavery.
Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by wizzwizz4 on Wednesday December 30, 2020 @07:13AM (#25581010)
But you haven't showed it occurs; only that it's legal. Plenty of things are legal that nobody does, and plenty of things are illegal that people do all the time.

I happen to know a little bit about what goes on in US prisons, so it's confusing me why you're not providing any of the mountains of evidence to support your point.

Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by DenisM on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:13PM (#25572841)
Please don't do that here. From the guidelines:

> Don't be snarky.

> Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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Re:Apple’s longtime supplier accused of using forced labor i... by DenisM on Tuesday December 29, 2020 @01:59PM (#25573402)
> CCP shills

And that is also against the rules:

> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken.

If you despise the rules so much why do you even keep coming here?