Fairphone have dozens of suppliers in China, some of them indirect, and they say in their own literature they can't directly vouch for every company in their supply chain.

They're in exactly the same boat as Apple. IMHO this is about China, not any one company.

Lack of perfection does not mean you should give up everything.

Oh absolutely, they work very hard on this and deserver a lot of credit for it, but then so do Apple. They have some of the strictest policies and most thorough inspections in the industry and this still keeps happening to them.

I don't think it's comparable no. The effort put by Fairphone to build an ethical tech company is not comparable with what apple have been doing. There's a lot of information on their website and it's worth to have a look: https://www.fairphone.com/en/impact

I mean, Apple also has a lot of information on their website and it's also worth looking at: https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/

They also have annual reports for the past few years just about this.

And Apple are also the highest rated tech company by Greenpeace for environmental issues after Fairphone.

That's quite strange given what they have been doing with repair:

http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-airpods-repair-recycling-imposs...

https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/apple-sues-canadian-recyc...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144489

Repair is only a factor because it contributes to device longevity, but iPhones have the longest average device lifetimes in the industry by a long way. In theory they could make it even longer but it's a relatively marginal issue in environmental terms. I agree there are other reasons that make it desirable as well and every little helps, but the fact remains iPhones have industry leading overall environmental impact.

“..researchers found that brand, an intangible property, is more important than repairability or memory size in extending the life of a product.”[0]

The article found that Apple phones last on average a year longer than Samsung’s.

[0]https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181016142434.h...

Another estimate puts Apple device lifespans at 4 years 3 months.[1]

[1]https://www.zdnet.com/article/iphone-ipad-mac-heres-how-long...

The average for all smartphones is estimated as from 2 to 3 years, but bear in mind that includes many Apple devices, so non Apple devices must average the low end of that.[2]

[2]https://www.coolblue.nl/en/advice/lifespan-smartphone.html

> but iPhones have the longest average device lifetimes in the industry by a long way

After iPhones are not supported anymore they turn into bricks. This typically happens in 5 years, which is not too bad, but it's far from being perfect. Why should a smartphone be supported for much shorter than laptops? Remember: reduce, reuse, recycle, in this order.

Librem 5 GNU/Linux phone has a lifetime support with updates.

> After iPhones are not supported anymore they turn into bricks.

Where on Earth do you get that from? My iPhone 3GS could still connect to the App Store after 7 years. My wife’s iPhone 6 from 2014 just got a patch in November.

Look, I’m not going to assume bad faith, maybe you really believe this or thought it seemed true to you. When your preconceptions turn out to be this dramatically contrary to the actual facts, I seriously suggest you take a look at what it is about those preconceptions that is leading you so far away from reality.

I see comments like this all the time. Apple devices have built in redundancy, yet in fact they have industry leading device support and lifetimes. Apple is an arch polluter, yet over here in reality they have the highest environmental rating from Greenpeace of any major smartphone vendor. Where do people like you get this stuff, and why? What is it that’s motivating you to say these things that are so clearly wrong and we easily disproved?

> Where on Earth do you get that from?

First link in DDG: https://www.statista.com/chart/5824/ios-iphone-compatibility...

> My iPhone 3GS could still connect to the App Store after 7 years.

Connection to App Store does not mean it's actually supported with patches or secure to use. I would call it "a brick".

> My wife’s iPhone 6 from 2014 just got a patch in November.

But the new OS is not going to be installed anymore (according to the link above). Any technical reasons for that, apart from the planned obsolescence?

> Look, I’m not going to assume bad faith, maybe you really believe this or thought it seemed true to you. When your preconceptions turn out to be this dramatically contrary to the actual facts, I seriously suggest you take a look at what it is about those preconceptions that is leading you so far away from reality.

Thank you, I am also assuming good faith and so could you please provide evidence for your claims? For how long do security updates typically come and for how long the OS is updated to new versions? Anecdotes are not enough on HN.

> industry leading device support and lifetimes

In the industry of planned obsolescence 5 years support becomes a gold standard praised by fanboys. But in reality it is very short and leads to nature pollution. I see no reason not to support devices forever or let the community support them when they are too old. Apple does neither of those.

> things that are so clearly wrong and we easily disproved?

Your words are very strong yet you give no (reliable) disprove.

> but there’s nothing that will brick them

You simply should not use a smartphone without security updates. It's as good as a brick in this case. (Or maybe never use Internet and Bluetooth on it).

So which OS or phone are you going to go with? Google only guarantees 3 years of support. Fairphone 2’s last OS update was 14 months ago, there’s no way that’s up to date with security issues so their track record is looking pretty dicey. After all they’re dependent on Google as well. Even if they do eventually get another update there’s no way a 14 month gap between security patches is acceptable. Fairphone only actually guarantee 2 years of support anyway.

So what phone do you use that can beat the iPhone 6 with 6 years of regular patches?

Did you actually read my replies above? I quote myself:

Librem 5 GNU/Linux phone has a lifetime support with updates.

The operating system is PureOS (Debian derivative). All necessary patches are upstreamed.

Apple has official repair locations all over the planet and they stock parts long after products are discontinued. Yes it kinda sucks that they killed third party repair but having an official location with official parts is actually more useful than being able to do it yourself but not being able to get parts.

For my pixel 2, while there were no technical restrictions preventing me from replacing the broken camera, the screen was glued in in a way making it very difficult to open without smashing. There were also no places to buy the camera other than what seemed to be cameras stripped out of broken/stolen pixel 2s.

> while there were no technical restrictions preventing me from replacing the broken camera, the screen was glued in in a way making it very difficult to open without smashing.

You just presented a technical restriction, didn't you?

> but having an official location with official parts is actually more useful than being able to do it yourself but not being able to get parts.

I disagree. This is not so much about DIY-repairs, but about a free market for third-party repairs, without which Apple can force people to pay as much as they want.

> Yes it kinda sucks that they killed third party repair...

Just had the screen on a 2018 iPad replaced by a third party. Worked out fine.

Is 3rd-party repair “killed” only for the latest Apple devices by virtue of some new hardware attestation stuff?

I recently went for an iPad repair, they asked me to do a replacement instead of repair.

Fairphone is also about being fair to its user, e.g. with available spare parts.

How’s the privacy on a fairphone? The same as regular android?

You can buy Fairphone without any Google stuff: https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-fairphone-3/.

They ship regular Android, with bootloader locked, although they provide instructions on how to unlock.