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Re:Mass die-off of birds in south-western US 'caused by star... by tayo42 on Saturday December 26, 2020 @03:56PM (#25546407)
My likely unpopular opinion, humans shouldn't have pets any more, i think its an overall net negative driven by peoples selfish need to take care of a thing, be loved and have attention.

Dogs are particularly bad. off leash owners cant control them, we have kill shelters, breeding for obscene prices, dog shit being left all over, dog fighting. Then people just don't know how to take care of them. I had a neighbor that left their dog outside for hours barking. such a nuisance for no reason, and that dog must have been living a miserable life. we keep breeding chihuahuas that no one wants, pitbulls that can't be adopted, and some of these pure breeds like bulldogs are just miserable, other pure breeds have health issues.

Cats we're already talking about.

Re:Mass die-off of birds in south-western US 'caused by star... by bumby on Saturday December 26, 2020 @04:06PM (#25546458)
The main counter argument I usually hear when this is brought up is that many of these animals have been bred for hundreds or thousands of years to be dependent on humans.

To your point about kill shelters, I think the humane society has largely helped fixed this. There was an article on HN this week that claimed shelter killings was reduced from 20% down to 2% based on the efforts of the humane society since the 1970s.

I may be biased as a dog lover, but most of your arguments seem to be based on bad owners. If we can stop bad ownership we should do so but let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. I don’t think bad parenting existing should be an excuse for abstaining from having children either, unless we regress to a misanthropic world view.

Re:Mass die-off of birds in south-western US 'caused by star... by hunter-gatherer on Saturday December 26, 2020 @04:24PM (#25546558)
Thanks for this. In college I worked at the Humane Society and helped with the dogs. Very hard work. After working there I realized how most "breeders" are just random blokes with an AKC pure bread who get some dogs together. Some real breeders who monitor trace genetics and try to make the breed better exist, but these dogs usually cost a lot of money, and have specific purposes and customers. Sometimes I wonder if dog ownership should require a license and semi hefty fee (make it more a kin to adoption). But I am not sure...

Disclaimer: I have a dog.

Re:Mass die-off of birds in south-western US 'caused by star... by tayo42 on Saturday December 26, 2020 @04:32PM (#25546604)
Yeah most problems do stem from bad owners. But idk how to enforce good dog and cat ownership? At least with kids we have cps even if it isn't perfect and if a crappy kids grows up into a terrible adult we have law enforcement.

But what can you do about terrible owners? Are we going to take dogs away from owners that don't clean up poop or how do you handle communities that don't think their dog needs a leash.

Re:Mass die-off of birds in south-western US 'caused by star... by bumby on Sunday December 27, 2020 @09:25AM (#25551225)
Most municipalities already have laws against this. Hell, where I live there’s a law that can escalate to a 3rd degree felony if your dog looks like it can get out of its fence. What I suspect is an unsatisfying answer for you is that they aren’t enforced because they really aren’t a priority.

That’s unfortunately a part of living in a society. We can’t always agree on what priorities are worth our limited resources. We’ve generally agreed children are a priority and choose to enforce those laws more often. For every person annoyed by bad dog owners, there’s somebody who annoyed by laws not being enforced against noise pollution, poorly parked cars, yard maintenance etc etc. My only suggestion is to get engaged to try and get them enforced if you feel it’s a major problem

Re:Mass die-off of birds in south-western US 'caused by star... by echelon on Saturday December 26, 2020 @04:54PM (#25546736)
> But idk how to enforce good dog and cat ownership?

We have laws against animal abuse. Some of these laws have strong teeth and can put abusers behind bars for years.

I have two dogs, and they're both incredibly happy. They enrich my life, and I do the same to theirs'. I don't want the state telling me I can't have dogs. That's a kind of liberal fascism that goes against the grain of this country's ethos.

There are dogs suffering in shelters, but there is suffering all around, everywhere you look. Orphan children, homeless people, cancer. If you start passing laws against everything, we'll wind up living in a bubble.

Find negative externalities and tax them if you want a better way of dealing with problems. Don't ban dog ownership.

Re:Mass die-off of birds in south-western US 'caused by star... by bobsil1 on Sunday December 27, 2020 @01:07AM (#25549229)
Let the domesticated variants die out, wolves will continue.
Re:Mass die-off of birds in south-western US 'caused by star... by Jon_Lowtek on Saturday December 26, 2020 @04:57PM (#25546753)
I highly disagree: humanity has co-evolved with animals and living together with them has always been normal. Reducing it to some "selfish need" is a cynical generalization. Denying pets will not improve the lives of these creatures, it will close their niche and pave the way for the extinction of their species. After millennia of living with them, that would be the ultimate betrayal of our most loyal friends and allies. We can already see that with horses: they are no longer useful and their numbers are dropping fast.
Re:Mass die-off of birds in south-western US 'caused by star... by specialist on Sunday December 27, 2020 @10:17AM (#25551576)
One wild theory is that dogs domesticated us. I could believe that.
Re:Mass die-off of birds in south-western US 'caused by star... by leetcrew on Saturday December 26, 2020 @04:07PM (#25546470)
to an extent I kinda agree. I definitely don't think people should deliberately breed animals as pets. but we already have an unnaturally large population of cats and dogs and we have not been entirely successful at preventing them from reproducing on their own. just leaving them be is not an option, as that would devastate the prey population. if the alternative is euthanizing the majority of cats and dogs that currently exist, I don't think we have to feel bad as individuals about keeping a few in our homes.
Re:Mass die-off of birds in south-western US 'caused by star... by specialist on Sunday December 27, 2020 @10:16AM (#25551567)
Absolutely agree. Especially in the aggregate.

And I still got a dog. Right before some unplanned surgeries. Now, I also totally believe the claimed personal health benefits. Can't stay in bed when the puppy needs to be walked. This dog probably saved my life.

We spend a lot of time at the dog park, so I see the cream of the dog owners. I try to not think too much about all the other dogs who aren't as lucky. I'll just start crying.