This is my only complaint about apple really, give me more info, logs, real error messages ect.

Not that windows is much better

Windows used to provide hex error codes with nearly every error message that couldn't be translated manually. Very often, these error messages can be traced to a generic error message if you look in the MSDN docs. Helped me solve quite some annoying Windows issues back in the day.

Since Microsoft went the UWP route, these nice error codes have been starting to vanish. Probably because when end users see an error they don't understand, their mind goes blank and their instinct is to click whatever button that makes the error go away, leading to confusion. A simple "try again later" will be a much more enjoyable experience for non-technical people than "Could not update your computer. The foobar failed to parse the widget tree (0xc0000005). Try again later."

When I did customer service, this trend had always irked me about Apple devices. I've had to tell a lot of people to contact Apple (which they never did of course, silently blaming us for their device not working) because all Apple's software said was "try again later".

And now it's spreading to other devices as well. Even if error codes are available, the error messages have been simplified and most error codes aren't documented. I wish there was some kind of generic standard shortcut or gesture that copied the stack trace of any fancy exception to your clipboard so people with technical know-how can actually solve the problem instead of getting told to "try to reboot my router" by a vague, generic help page when Netflix can't find a video stream that matches my video decoding hardware.

A few weeks ago I scanned the Windows 10 BSOD QR code for the first time, out of curiosity. Since the BSODs no longer show any useful information other than the terse STOP description, I expected both that, the STOP code and the four parameters, perhaps also a link to that code's web page. Nope. Just a link to https://windows.com/stopcode

The problem (I think) is that as soon as a detailed error message is given (or some error code), sites will pop up all over the place telling you to download their software to fix “error code 0x80000008” or whatever. It’s so annoying searching a Windows error code only to have 9/10 of the results be generic SEO spam for some garbage software that (1) doesn’t fix the problem and (2) costs $40+.

Here's a compromise: "Something went wrong, try again later. Click here to see more details."

I would like to see more details. Sometimes I won't be able to interpret them, often I will be able to, and I'd rather be able to see why something failed so I can fix it.

Apple used to. I can't remember if/when they stopped but they used to be a regular occurrence at least in Mac OS 7

you can open the console and see all sorts of logging, its just often not useful or helpful or hard to find what your looking for in the deluge

Tangentially-related:

So we were looking at smartwatches available, and we were deciding between the Apple Watch and fitbits. I was surprised to learn the fitbits give you incredibly detailed data on the quality of your sleep but Apple watch doesn't... and I was thinking huh, that's strange, certainly the Apple Watch has the sensors to be able to produce the data and Apple has the engineering talent to make sense of the data and present it to the end-user in a meaningfully appropriate manner.

I can't find the article now, but apparently it came out from Apple engineers that they ultimately chose not to disclose detailed data to the user because burdening the end-user with this information can cause a mental overload... so instead Apple opted to focus on developing habits (hence the 'go to sleep' notifications and the clever sleep-hour alarms).

I've had some time to reflect on this since I was having these conversations with my acquaintances... and I've gotta say, I think I agree with Apple's approach.

If you wish to use an Apple Watch to collect sleep data until your head explodes, there are apps such as AutoSleep that will fill that hole for you. Until you arrive at the conclusion that all those data aren’t making you sleep any better, then you’ll just use Apple’s built-in.

They're inconsistent too. macOS updates have progress bars that give you an estimate for completion. iOS updates just show you a progress bar with no estimated time. And this is what I worry with macOS becoming more like iOS.

on the other hand, hold down 'v' at boot time on a mac and see all the error messages that have been there for YEARS and ignored the whole time.

> maybe for design reasons? Who knows

Maybe they care how the user feels about getting stuck at "99% complete" for long periods, caused by uncertainties. Seriously.

Yea, don't give them sudden uncertainty at the end of the process. Provide uncertainty the whole time, for consistency. Design Thinking!

Hah, sure seems weird, but for example tell a kid something will take a given amount of time, the kid will constantly ask if its ready ignoring the original estimate, and will get really anxious if you tell him it's taking way more time than expected. Then you will learn the easier way is to tell the kid "leave this to me, don't bug me, go play with your toys and I'll tell you when it's ready". That's the kind of psychology Apple is using here, from my perspective.

So, Apple views clients as petulant children?.

Also, I don't treat my kid that way.

That's probably how mass-market clients are seen for some companies... are they succesful? The answer points to a trend that should scare us. As a parent I also want my kids to be smarter than this.