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Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by agentultra on Monday May 16, 2011 @12:23PM (#2553049)
Hiring is hard because understanding people is hard.

There's also the problem of selection bias. Your technical interviewers are going to look for people that resemble themselves. In a broad sense this is because they think they're smart and everyone else is dumb (and rightly so). The problem is that this strategy can be far too successful and you will invariably turn away a perfectly suitable selection of candidates along with the unsuitable ones. It's human nature and difficult to detect.

There is another form of selection bias in the interview process. You need to know that the candidate you're going to hire is going to be competent, assertive, and talented. However the exact match of skills, abilities, and personality traits that fulfill those broad categories are going to be based off of those skills, abilities, and traits you believe have helped you to be successful so far. When interviewing someone it is far too easy to check off the features a candidate is lacking and miss the ones they do have that you do not. A good hire, IMO, is someone who has some of the skills and abilities you already have and some you do not. Yet all too often, we look for people who have ALL of the skills we already have instead.

I think strategies such as the one in the article would at least by-pass many of the definicies noted above. However I think it might be impractical in some scenarios (ie: when the candidate is already in a position at another company, or when they have received attractive offers from other companies). It's a start though and I think alternative strategies should be considered more often.

Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by btmorex on Monday May 16, 2011 @12:43PM (#2553147)
It's not just impractical. It's a complete nonstarter in any competitive job market (like the bay area).

First, contract to hire is a pure negative for the employee. People can "try a company" out just fine with a full time offer and then quit if it's not a good fit.

Second, it's far easier to find good people by poaching from other companies than it is by traditional means. No one is going to quit their job for a 3 week contract even if they're really unhappy at their current job. So, with this approach, you've just removed the biggest pool of talented prospects there is.

Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by erikpukinskis on Monday May 16, 2011 @04:00PM (#2553934)
You didn't read the article. They offer 5 day (few days off plus weekend) contracts, or even weekend contracts. They will wait until you have a vacation.

If your company is a total bore and no one in the bay area thinks what you're doing is at all exciting, then you're right. The ONLY thing you have to offer is a signed contract with a very high number on it.

But if you're actually doing something personally exciting to someone, they will absolutely take a few days out of their routine (with compensation) to explore that. Honestly, if someone isn't excited enough about my company to put a few days into it without a full time contract, I don't want them in my company.

I've put a few YEARS of my life into my company without such a contract. I'd expect my employees to have at least a fraction of that passion.

Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by mattmanser on Monday May 16, 2011 @05:01PM (#2554155)
IANAL but as far as I can see this strategy is not without risk.

After all, they are already being paid on those vacation days, are they not technically working for their existing company?

What happens when your new employee's old company turns round and says 'Hey, we just found out about your wonderful scheme about testing out our employees when they're still under our contract. That means our intellectual property is in your code base. That employee has no negotiation power and you clearly knew that, our price for this bespoke job is $100,000. You've already got the goods, payment terms 1 day. Thanks.'.

Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by kurin on Monday May 16, 2011 @06:08PM (#2554386)
I know there are some asshole IP contracts out there, but I think even so a company would have a hard time claiming ownership of a project an employee did for someone else, in his own time.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by reynolds on Monday May 16, 2011 @11:41PM (#2555176)
I don't spend my vacations working for other people. You also can't expect a contractor to be passionate about your company when they have no vested interest in its success.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by erikpukinskis on Tuesday May 17, 2011 @01:07AM (#2555346)
With all due respect, I'm sure you're great at what you do, but I'd never want you to work for me. I'm on a mission and I'm interested in hiring people who share that mission. If you are solely driven by vested financial interests you wouldn't be a good fit.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by franklindholm on Tuesday May 17, 2011 @05:16AM (#2555817)
And with all due respect to you, you seem to not be considering the employee's point of view at all. An employee exchanges his time for money. It is not fair to assume that because an employee doesn't want to exchange ALL of his time for money that he is not passionate about his work or your company. He could be very passionate about these things but also have other priorities, such as rest and recovery from a full year of work, spending time with his family and friends etc. And, again, with all due respect to you, I don't ever want to work for someone like you. I, and every other healthy social individual, have other priorities besides work. You seem like the kind of person that demands his employees to put in ungodly hours to achieve the goals of your "mission", but I could of course be wrong about that. It would be a service to all us employees at HN if you could drop your company name so we could avoid it if we ever would hear of a position with you.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by erikpukinskis on Friday May 20, 2011 @08:22PM (#2569893)
My company is SproutRobot.com. It's in my profile. You should check out what I'm building and by all means if it's not interesting to you avoid applying for a job. :)

I would never ask people to work without compensation. And I would never ask people to work "ungodly" hours. But I do want to work with people who are really excited about tech and about home gardens, and about making stuff that was impossible possible. Not many companies offer the chance to work on a problem like that, and for some people it's really exciting.

And they should talk to me. I've already had several people offer to work on the project for free just because it interests them and they're looking to explore other career paths.

I actually have never done the "let's do a trial weekend/week contract gig" thing, although I don't understand why you're so vociferously against that approach. Even if it limits me to people who are freelancers.... there are a lot of freelancers out there! And I'm not an unreasonable guy. If someone was excited about SproutRobot I would do everything I could to find a way to get them on board!

But if someone doesn't give a shit, and can't rearrange a couple days, or a weekend to figure out if we're a good fit.... I don't see how I'm a totally evil slavedriver boss if I think that's an indication of a poor fit for my company.

What's so terrible about wanting to hire people who want to go out of their way to work for me?

Edit: And what would you think about a company that required you to fly out for a weekend to do two days of interviews? You wouldn't even get paid for that! You must think that kind of demand is abhorrent if you think hiring someone for two days to get paid to work on the product is evil.

Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by JonoW on Tuesday May 17, 2011 @08:23AM (#2556119)
You're really not considering the potential employee here. When interviewing for a job, unless the company is very well known, a Google or a Microsoft, a candidate will probably know relatively little of your company, and probably have no understanding of your mission. How can you expect them to be driven by your mission if they don't know what it is?

You could say the best way for them to find this out is by doing this 3 week contract for hire idea, but that's still a risk to the candidate.

Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by erikpukinskis on Friday May 20, 2011 @08:22PM (#2569895)
They can visit the web site and look a the product. I think it's a really exciting and unique product. I want to work with people who feel the same way.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by seanp2k on Tuesday May 17, 2011 @08:41PM (#2558601)
Yeah, just because I'm interviewing with you doesn't mean that I'm 100% on board with your "mission" just yet. It took me about two years with my company to really really really get behind what we do and believe that we really are the best at what we do. It took that long because I, by default, probably like most other sane people, don't just trust blindly. The company had to prove itself to me. Trying to hire based on the inverse of that would be misguided.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by erikpukinskis on Friday May 20, 2011 @08:28PM (#2569905)
I'm a little hurt that you're calling me misguided. Have you looked at my business? It's a mission-driven business. The mission is extremely clear. Dozens of people a week tell me they LOVE the mission after spending 1 minute with the site. This isn't some obscure chat client or something. I'm trying to do something real. Anyone who doesn't get excited about that right away is not a good fit. I don't think that's misguided.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by gdilla on Monday May 16, 2011 @01:26PM (#2553336)
agreed. But Yelp and Facebook do a micro version of this for job applicants. They give you a test - usually along the lines of, mock up something to make our platform better. You have 24 Hrs. Go. Since they're prol two of the hottest places to work, not least because they're two of the biggest pre-IPO joints out there, they can get away with this. Even if you get rejected (and I did), they get your idea (and mine were great, I tell you! Fully mocked up). Well, I bombed the intws but they did like my mocks. You feel like a cheap prostitute afterwards.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by bostonpete on Monday May 16, 2011 @01:50PM (#2553433)
> You feel like a cheap prostitute afterwards.

Prostitutes get paid at least. You were a rape victim.

Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by kelnos on Monday May 16, 2011 @03:26PM (#2553811)
A little crass, but agreed.

That actually bothers me a bit. You do work as part of an interview, aren't offered a job, and aren't compensated for the work done, but the interviewing company gets to keep and use the work. I'm assuming the applicant would have had to sign something to that effect at the beginning of the interview process, but it just feels like a raw deal to me.

Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by qq66 on Monday May 16, 2011 @06:55PM (#2554524)
The interviewing company does not get to keep and use the work; even if the applicant signed something, if consideration was not given, it would be difficult to use the work.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by erikpukinskis on Monday May 16, 2011 @04:01PM (#2553945)
Ask for compensation.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by wmil on Tuesday May 17, 2011 @02:44PM (#2557371)
More like a starlet who got the casting couch.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by swampthing on Monday May 16, 2011 @01:53PM (#2553448)
Doesn't seem like you noticed, but the author offered alternatives to the standard 3-week contracting approach.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by seanp2k on Tuesday May 17, 2011 @08:37PM (#2558590)
>"No one is going to quit their job for a 3 week contract even if they're really unhappy at their current job. So, with this approach, you've just removed the biggest pool of talented prospects there is."

THANK YOU (THIS THIS THIS)

Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by Tangurena on Tuesday May 17, 2011 @01:01AM (#2555331)
Part of why it is so hard is that the hiring process involves so many people who don't know anything about programming. An older friend of mine is great at blowing smoke up your butt, and if HR or managers are doing the interviewing, he always gets the job. If technical people are doing the interviewing, he rarely gets the job. The buzzwords he uses sound all warm and fuzzy to the managers, but annoy other programmers so much they autoreject him. His biggest failure is his inability to keep up with modern technology, so he tends not to last more than 6 months. Based on a number of other interviews where I've been on the side looking for candidates, my friend is not a single sample/anecdote; I've seen a lot of other guys like him out there.
Re:Everyone sucks at interviewing. Everyone. by UncleOxidant on Monday May 16, 2011 @08:17PM (#2554774)
"Yet all too often, we look for people who have ALL of the skills we already have instead."

Exactly. The other thing the companies/groups do is that they hire for their needs right now instead of thinking about what they might need later... But the biggest mistake is in not thinking-outside-the-box when it comes to candidates. There's an assumption that the person you're looking for has exactly a certain background and set of skills. As an example (sorry, not a web guy), you're hiring a chip designer and you overlook the guy who's been writing software to design chips (EDA)... The chip design guys tend to think the coder doesn't know anything about chip design, but as it turns out to write software to design chips you've gotta know a lot about designing chips.