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Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by Zamicol on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @12:56AM (#25503360)
I don't understand why this hasn't happen sooner as it's been 8 years since their release. Ripple is a centralized, managed network. It's nothing like Bitcoin, Ethereum, or many other decentralized projects. Ripple is not a cryptocurrency.

For years I've told loved ones, friends, and anyone with a passing interest in the nascent space to avoid Ripple like the plague.

Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by SOLAR_FIELDS on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @05:12AM (#25504739)
It actually was useful for a brief period as a pretty fast and reliable way to process a transaction. There was a time when a good portion of the major cryptocurrencies had transaction confirmation times on the order of minutes and XRP was one of the few reliable and cheap ways to get a fast transaction (seconds) completed.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by zapdrive on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @07:01AM (#25505436)
Of course, because it's a CENTRALIZED service. I can make a centralized transaction settlement service with a completion time in milliseconds. But it will not have the security and freedom of a decentralized service.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by Espressosaurus on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:58AM (#25506294)
The security of having an audit trail with no way of reversing the transaction and the freedom to get ripped off by a shady exchange?
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by loceng on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @11:05AM (#25507635)
... with the solution being an externalized centralized government with centralized accountability, justice, and enforcement organizations - also left to deal with the bad actors who will freely use the system without the centralized (hopefully in place via democratically elected government with integrity) tools of things like Magnitsky Act to dissuade bad actions of bad actors.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by zionic on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @11:10AM (#25507695)
Any system powerful enough to give you everything you want (perfect security) is also powerful enough to take everything away.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by HexagonalKitten on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @01:25PM (#25509434)
If I send you a signed message from a trusted key, your "audit trail" is to save that message. Super simple. And if I have a message ID in each you could even show that there aren't any missed messages, if you wanted.

A blockchain is just an incredibly inefficient way to store those messages, giving them an explicit ordering in case they don't have internal IDs, and to establish ordering between users. All of that can be done with a simple 'index server' that doles out ordered message IDs, without the blocks, the mining, etc.

Banks don't even need the currency. Banks just settle their debts in their local currency and they trust enforcement to the courts and bailiffs. This is what Ripple had right, in the beginning. They only need a messaging layer.

Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by zapdrive on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @06:53PM (#25512864)
One man's inability to reverse a transaction is another man's security.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by bitxbitxbitcoin on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @10:35AM (#25507209)
The freedom to get ripped off by a shady exchange is the same as the freedom to not have your money stolen by the government. Worth it, in my opinion.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by loceng on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @11:09AM (#25507677)
Except you can, through effort and organization (none of this "trustless" mantra non-sense/propaganda), get in place a competent democratically elected government with integrity via accountability and oversight - perhaps even running for elected positions yourself if you're passionate and strong enough.

Or you can ignore the nuances and complexes, say fuck it, and support a system that disables power that good organizations do need to manage bad actors - instead of turning the clock back and making the world a "free for all" - making tools like the Magnisky Act unenforceable, along with other unavoidable pitfalls that pro-Bitcoiners ignore, scoff at without rebuttal, or glance over without serious thought. Regulatory capture is real and it needs to be addressed always - and if you work from founding principles and are honest with yourself you'll come to the conclusion that centralized organizations are a necessity to fighting "evil"/bad behaviour with good, responsible, trustworthy people

The argument then goes into nuance of where the debate continues as to how conservative or liberal you are - how "small" or "big" the government is, e.g. what decision making power or function does or should government have, e.g. Universal Basic Income/UBI - the Freedom Dividend as Andrew Yang calls it - would arguably be more of traditional Conservative/Republican leaning - giving $1,000/month to individuals for THEM TO DECIDE what to do with the money vs. some bureaucratic government agency spending that money themselves making broad-vague decisions, almost always influenced by regulatory capture and industrial complexes manipulating the system via influencing politicians and the population via propaganda of various forms: "tobacco is good for you" - says your doctor, "fat is bad for you" says the sugar and health industry, "MDMA/mushrooms are bad for you" - says big pharma industry who can't patent those medicines, etc.

Edit: LUL - imagine a person actually had to put the effort into writing a qualitative response instead of getting a dopamine hit from a single click to ignore/avoid engaging.

Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by a1369209993 on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @02:56PM (#25510428)
> you can, through effort and organization (none of this "trustless" mantra non-sense/propaganda), get in place a competent democratically elected government with integrity via accountability and oversight

No, you can't; that's rather the problem.

Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by loceng on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @01:56PM (#25520791)
You can. It's not a fixed state - where it is or isn't competent. It's complex, dynamic, with many moving parts - and it's evolving. You put a system in place and then you see how bad actors will take advantage of it, then you once you have enough of the population educated, understanding, pissed off - the impetus occurs - they will vote for change that adds policies (or undo bad policy most likely stemming from regulatory capture of industrial complexes) that will correct to prevent or limit potential harmful behaviour that will cascade from bad policy.

In my last comment I highlight the main policies necessary for a big shift to be able to occur:

"Until there's a strong enough impetus and they start to learn the game to understand it: I'd considered Andrew Yang a normal person, who published a book called The War On Normal People before running for President this last election.

More people like him will come to light, especially once policy proposals he's made like Freedom Dividend/UBI, Ranked Choice Voting, Democracy Dollars, Journalism Dollars get implemented to break apart the two-party system." - from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25509841

Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by dmix on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @02:03PM (#25509841)
Normal people don't run for political office. Not from any of my life experience.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by loceng on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @01:49PM (#25520718)
Until there's a strong enough impetus and they start to learn the game to understand it: I'd considered Andrew Yang a normal person, who published a book called The War On Normal People before running for President this last election.

More people like him will come to light, especially once policy proposals he's made like Freedom Dividend/UBI, Ranked Choice Voting, Democracy Dollars, Journalism Dollars get implemented to break apart the two-party system.

Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by throw1234651234 on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:49AM (#25506197)
ALGO/Algorand does that now...at least until ETH2 if the latter hits it's promised transaction rates.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by efwfwef on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @02:02AM (#25503735)
It's a currency based on cryptography, let's not try to exclude projects based on random definitions. You want to be more specific, like, it is not censorship-resistant.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by fastball on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @02:10AM (#25503780)
Ok, but the cryptography is pointless if it's a centralized system.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by petersellers on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @02:48AM (#25503969)
How so?
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by martinko on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @02:56AM (#25504023)
Because you might as well just use an SQL database
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by pat2man on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @03:06AM (#25504074)
“Proof of authority” chains are a lot more than just a database. There is still a verifiable audit trail etc.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by saberdancer on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @03:18AM (#25504131)
Nothing stops you from having a verifiable audit trail in a SQL database. You could even decentralize the audit trail.

Problem with Ripple is creation of new XRPs, they had full control over that.

Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by thinkloop on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @04:11AM (#25504418)
How do you decentralize the audit trail? Would need something like ripple
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by strken on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @07:16AM (#25505537)
Generate a cumulative checksum of everything that happened yesterday plus the previous day's checksum, and post it in the local paper, on your website, and in all investor documentation.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by px43 on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @03:18AM (#25504129)
Eh, last I checked the five primary validator nodes are all run by Ripple.com. Not really "POA" when there's only one authority IMO.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by jnwatson on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @03:36AM (#25504239)
So, a database plus digital signatures.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by waynesonfire on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @03:19AM (#25504140)
so a sql database
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by harkal on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @05:31AM (#25504864)
So files with indexes... so storage devices with a file systems... so... so bits of information...
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by ForHackernews on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @08:15AM (#25505907)
FWIW, this is how I feel about every crypto-so-called- "currency".
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by martinko on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @09:40AM (#25506637)
Don't want to get into an argument about crypto currencies, but the value proposition of BTC is different. What is not replaceable by a simple DB is it decentralization and resilience to attack, its resistance to seizure and its incorruptibility in terms of maximum supply (the digital gold / store of value narrative).
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by ForHackernews on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @10:32AM (#25507163)
It's worth highlighting that there are distributed databases that meet all those criteria except "incorruptibility in terms of maximum supply". You're right to point out that there are a few very specific use cases that a distributed blockchain with multiple independently-owned verification nodes will satisfy and other more performant databases will not. Whether that makes them "valuable" like gold is left as an exercise for the reader.
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by ric2b on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @01:00PM (#25509147)
Distributed is not the same as decentralized.

A decentralized system is a distributed system that still works _when nodes are owned by multiple different (even competing/malicious) parties_.

Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by fastball on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @03:08PM (#25510581)
Exactly. In other words, a "trustless" system.

See the Byzantine Generals Problem[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault

Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by ForHackernews on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @08:21AM (#25517320)
yes, yes, I said that already: "...multiple independently-owned verification nodes..."
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by icf80 on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @03:13AM (#25504099)
you hold the key to decide what to do with the funds
Re:Cryptocurrency company Ripple says SEC lawsuit is imminent by fastball on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @03:17AM (#25504125)
Which Ripple can invalidate if they control the network, which they do.