News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by Crontab on Thursday December 17, 2020 @06:44PM (#25462007)
Personally, I see it as a user hostile change.
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by varvar on Thursday December 17, 2020 @09:37PM (#25463163)
Apple Bad Fanboy Club
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by jhayward on Thursday December 17, 2020 @08:27PM (#25462741)
Really? Approximately how many users, would you say, will be unable to install MacOS as a result?
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by heavyset_go on Thursday December 17, 2020 @08:33PM (#25462778)
Well, I run Linux on my Mac, and I legally virtualize macOS in a VM on my Mac, so this could impact my ability to do so.
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by phs318u on Thursday December 17, 2020 @11:43PM (#25463955)
Out of interest, would you mind describing your setup? i.e. hardware, linux distro, VM tech and macOS version?
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by heavyset_go on Friday December 18, 2020 @07:16PM (#25473702)
It's nothing special. I use Kubuntu on a MBP, and I've talked about how I've setup Plasma Desktop before on HN[1][2].

I run Catalina in a VM because it's the oldest macOS version that supports the APIs I'm developing against. I used to use KVM for virtualizing macOS, but VirtualBox[3] is more portable despite being much slower, so I use that now.

If you can use KVM with Virtio and VFIO passthrough, it's really fast. Linux just got Virtio-fs[4], too. I've had to pass boot options to the kernel to get the IOMMU to play nicely on the Mac, though, and I just don't have patience for that these days.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23607374

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25172499

[3] https://github.com/myspaghetti/macos-virtualbox

[4] https://virtio-fs.gitlab.io/

Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by phs318u on Friday December 18, 2020 @09:30PM (#25474442)
Thanks. I've got an MBA6,2 lying around so may give it a go over the holidays.
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by heavyset_go on Friday December 18, 2020 @10:52PM (#25474847)
Linux runs really well on Macbooks that came out before 2016. I've found powertop, TLP and TLP-GUI, and mbpfan to be useful laptop and Mac-specific tools on Linux.
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by mschuster91 on Friday December 18, 2020 @03:45AM (#25465126)
Not the poster you're replying to, but a cheesegrater MP4.1 with Debian and this package (https://github.com/kholia/OSX-KVM) works just fine.

Never bothered with GPU passthrough however.

Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by jhayward on Friday December 18, 2020 @11:58AM (#25469055)
So, you run Linux on your Mac and virtualize MacOS but won't be able to locate and download the installer as others have indicated?
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by heavyset_go on Friday December 18, 2020 @07:18PM (#25473713)
I haven't actually looked into it, hence why I said it could impact my ability to do so.
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by fastball on Thursday December 17, 2020 @09:33PM (#25463145)
That might make you unique haha.
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by baldfat on Thursday December 17, 2020 @10:40PM (#25463547)
How does VM Mac on a Mac as a developer make one unique?
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by fastball on Friday December 18, 2020 @12:09AM (#25464097)
Buying a mac, installing linux as your daily driver, and then running macOS in a VM?

I honestly don't even know why you'd do that. I certainly have never heard of anyone doing that until now.

Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by thekyle on Friday December 18, 2020 @01:38AM (#25464477)
I think it's more common to virtualize macOS on a Mac running macOS.
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by fastball on Friday December 18, 2020 @10:42AM (#25468105)
Sure, but that is not the setup I interpreted from his comment, as I'm unsure why you would mention linux if the point of the comment was about virtualizing macOS on macOS.
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by thekyle on Monday December 21, 2020 @06:45PM (#25501159)
Yes, I understand. But if you can't install macOS in VM on Linux (on a Mac) then you most likely can't do it in a VM on macOS either.
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by craftinator on Friday December 18, 2020 @01:50AM (#25464512)
Likely because he wants more than a sliver of control over his OS.
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by fastball on Friday December 18, 2020 @03:13PM (#25471344)
Why?
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by ksk on Friday December 18, 2020 @02:15AM (#25464620)
Is your argument that we shouldn't care, or is your argument that it is not user hostile? Just curious.

I'm not personally affected, and my Apple outrage cup is already filled up with their sustained anti-repair pro-landfill stance.

Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by jhayward on Friday December 18, 2020 @12:00PM (#25469068)
It's an honest question to see if my priors are adequate.

My priors tell me that to a close approximation, this will prevent 0 people from installing MacOS. It's just "outrage porn".

Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by simonh on Friday December 18, 2020 @05:08AM (#25465631)
https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-greenest-tech-company-...

If you actually do care about the environmental impact of your electronics, Greenpeace are the real deal. They look into the details from renewable energy use, eliminating toxic materials, average device lifetimes to reduce device churn and recyclability, there's one clear option out of the big device manufacturers and it's not even close.

Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by ksk on Friday December 18, 2020 @12:52PM (#25469797)
Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by simonh on Friday December 18, 2020 @03:28PM (#25471511)
Yes that’s completely true. However repairability only matters environmentally because it helps the device have a longer useful lifetime. iPhones have the longest useful lifetimes of any smartphones anyway though, so they’re still clearly the best choice overall.

My one criticism of the a Greenpeace report I think is that they don’t really put enough weight on average device working lifetime. It’s a direct multiplier on every other factor.

Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by ksk on Friday December 18, 2020 @06:06PM (#25473200)
>iPhones have the longest useful lifetimes of any smartphones anyway though, so they’re still clearly the best choice overall.

Not exactly, because other phones can be repaired which extends their life.

Apple's doesn't do board repair themselves, and blocks others from doing it as well. This means more components end up in land fills. Apple's own extended warranty program makes billions of dollars. And the repair industry itself is quite large - millions maybe hundreds of millions of dollars per year. Apple products clearly fail and need repair at some point or another.

I hope you'll join everyone else in demanding Apple stop opposing right to repair legislation.

Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by simonh on Saturday December 19, 2020 @04:35AM (#25476328)
Repairability isn’t a significant metric because beyond battery replacement, which is very reasonably for iPhones since Apple halved their battery replacement prices a few years ago, very few phones are ever repaired.

“..researchers found that brand, an intangible property, is more important than repairability or memory size in extending the life of a product.”[0]

The article found that Apple phones last on average a year longer than Samsung’s.

[0]https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181016142434.h...

Another estimate puts Apple device lifespans at 4 years 3 months.[1]

[1]https://www.zdnet.com/article/iphone-ipad-mac-heres-how-long...

The average for all smartphones is estimated as from 2 to 3 years, but bear in mind that includes many Apple devices, so non Apple devices must average the low end of that.[2]

[2]https://www.coolblue.nl/en/advice/lifespan-smartphone.html

The fact is repairability simply isn’t a significant factor in environmental impact overall. I do completely accept that wanting it as an individual right is entirely reasonable. There are plenty of solid arguments in favour of repairability, but environmentalism isn’t one of them. If you care about the environment more than right to repair, Apple devices win by a very large margin.

Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by ksk on Saturday December 19, 2020 @12:08PM (#25478895)
I posted direct quotes from Greenpeace. You're linking to ZDNet, and a random study that has no published data as far as I can tell. Note that I am not easily swayed by studies - I work in Vaccine R&D and I read tons of research papers, and many of them are junk. A study doesn't mean something is true. I'd trust Greenpeace knowing about the environment more than ZDNet.

>The fact is repairability simply isn’t a significant factor in environmental impact overall.

This is not a fact. Every single environmental group on this planet agrees that repair is significant component in reducing environmental impact. By definition it means fewer devices need to be re-purchased, fewer devices end up in landfills, more local repair jobs, more support-economy jobs, etc. I don't think I will be able to convince you otherwise. I will let you have the last word. Have a nice day :)

Re:Apple has stopped providing standalone installers for mac... by simonh on Saturday December 19, 2020 @03:27PM (#25480883)
A ‘random study’ from the Yale School of Forestry & Environmental Studies.

Not swayed by studies. Sheesh. If the best you can do is “Laaa, Laaa, I’m not listening”, I’m done.