Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops

Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by zinekeller on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @07:03AM (#25441603)

I'm pretty sure that even x86 UEFI cannot boot from CDs/DVDs (unless they are in BIOS emulation mode). This is the reason why physical retail Windows 10 images are in a read-only USB.

Update: some enterprise UEFI setups do boot from DVDs but the ISO should be a hybrid type (aka must have EFI-style partitions).

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by roblabla on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @07:50AM (#25441907)

UEFI supports bootable DVDs, although they use an extension of El Torrito. See section 13.3.2.1 of the UEFI Specification, Version 2.8.

> To boot from a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM in the boot services environment, an EFI System partition is stored in a “no emulation” mode as defined by the “El Torito” specification.

This was chosen specifically to allow polyglot ISO files that can both be booted bh UEFI and legacy BIOS. The implementation of tools to create such polyglot files are, to say the least, interesting. The tools effectively generate both a FAT and ISO partition, each having its own file information table, but sharing the actual file contents.

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by xmodem on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @07:58AM (#25441950)

This sounds fascinating and horrific. Where can I learn more?

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by tremon on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @10:28AM (#25443698)

Matthew Garrett wrote about this, about a decade ago. It turns out you can create an iso/usb hybrid image that boots correctly on all combinations of BIOS/UEFI, optical disc/usb drive, and PC/Mac.

https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/4957.html

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by toast0 on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @01:32PM (#25446345)

Dreamcast uses El Torito for booting as well, I bet you could make that work too. Possible issues are that I don't know if the Dreamcast will inspect multiple boot images to find an appropriately labeled one, and I don't know if the other platforms will accept a bootable disc that's prepared for Dreamcast (must have at least two sessions, first session audio, second session data with el torito for booting)

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by pabs3 on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @08:51AM (#25442434)

https://wiki.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Isohybrid https://repo.or.cz/syslinux.git/blob/HEAD:/utils/isohybrid.c

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by flatiron on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @09:08AM (#25442593)

https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2014/readings/boot-cdrom.pd...

Phoenix and IBM coming up with a standard. Wonder if that was still a hard pill the swallow in 1995.

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by chungus_khan on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @09:16AM (#25442704)

Ultimately they had to if they wanted BIOS to be able to boot CD-ROMs. The BIOS boot sequence sticking around for so long is an unfortunate consequence of it becoming a decentralized standard outside of any one vendor's control, and so the only way to make it all work was for vendors to agree, and the solutions wouldn't be obvious or trivial in most cases because that boot sequence is incredibly primitive and full of assumptions coherent in a system with two floppy drives and maybe a disk if you were lucky.

But I'm sure the bad blood was measurable, especially for the higher-ups.

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by chungus_khan on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @09:11AM (#25442622)

UEFI doesn't much care what sort of storage medium something is on, so long as it is capable of reading it and it has a valid EFI partition. It is much less picky than BIOS, for which the El Torito standard had to be invented, and can be implemented easily on disks that use that format for dual-use. I haven't encountered UEFI implementations that don't support optical disks but I imagine it is possible there are some laptop vendors that might not have implemented optical drive support.

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by jojo2000 on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @07:03AM (#25441605)

debian cd images can be dd'ed on an usb key (at least on x86 with legacy bios/uefi) [0]

[0] https://www.debian.org/releases/jessie/amd64/ch04s03.html.en

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by ksec on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @09:42AM (#25443028)

That is sort of an interesting question on its own. Those born after 2000 didn't know anything about the "Save Icon" ( Floppy Disc ). And those born after 2010s, might never have seen a CD or DVD.

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by sombrero_guitar on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @11:56AM (#25444845)

A CD is like a DVD with only sound. A DVD is like a Blu Ray but can't hold as much. A Blu Ray is what your PlayStation/Xbox games come on. Given the popularity of game consoles and that most of them still use optical media, I don't think CD/DVDs are things that a young person would be unfamiliar with. Unlike floppy disks which have no equivalent or use for average people these days.

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by raffraffraff on Thursday December 17, 2020 @02:50AM (#25453545)

No love for MiniDisc data or Zip Drive :(

Me neither!

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by kemonocode on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @10:00AM (#25443311)

That's kind of horrifying in itself, considering I don't think there's a viable alternative for (WORM) mid-to-long term data storage most people have access to.

Of course, in practice with optic media you may stumble upon varying forms of bit rot, scratches or recording errors so it's definitively not the be-all and end-all, but still, I've got CDs recorded 30 years ago I can still read in modern systems and that I won't wipe by accident.

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Re:Debian CD Image for AArch64 Windows Laptops by Denvercoder9 on Wednesday December 16, 2020 @11:28AM (#25444476)

Blu-ray's are still reasonably common, though they are slowly disappearing as well and I don't think there will ever be a successor. Fact is that write-once read-many is just not considered a very valuable property by itself, and as rewritable storage is becoming cheaper (if only by economies of scale) it'll displace them.

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