>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32371934/

'Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.'

Doesn't say anything about clothes mask that most people use.

>https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.19.20071779v...

Its say it may block some droplet, and even then require 2 or 3 layers of cloth. Does not saying anything about whether it can reduce virus transmission.

>This about page looks... not so trustworthy.

The page looks has nothing to do with the content/argument.

>https://www.mediaite.com/news/sweden-once-heralded-for-avoid...

So ? They have no mask mandate and still no lockdown and live is pretty much still normal there.

>https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

So ? They are doing very well. I went there for visit myself recently and considering moving there.

>https://www.cbsnews.com/news/south-dakota-covid-kristi-noem-...

So ? She is doing the right thing and the state are doing well too.

A summary of this conversation so far:

---

You've moved the goalpost:

Masks don't work -> Some masks don't work.

---

Sources you've provided:

A paper that didn't cover the topic you were "refuting" with it: ( https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817 )

A YouTube video from a "doctor" who has provided no certifications, claims to be non political and is promoting a debunked theory (hydroxychloroquine), and has fixed the typo I pointed out to you to you the other day, so congrats on that one.

---

Topic you've not responded about:

Death's.

Both amount: ( https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm )

And the rate increase demonstrated in the math earlier.

---

Unless you can provide some more substantive evidence than "I feel" and "This rando on YouTube agrees with me", I don't see any reason to continue this conversation further.

Edit: Formatting

> https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

from the results itself :

Although the difference observed was not statistically significant, the 95% CIs are compatible with a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection

and from the conclusion :

The recommendation to wear surgical masks to supplement other public health measures did not reduce the SARS-CoV-2 infection rate among wearers by more than 50% in a community with modest infection rates, some degree of social distancing, and uncommon general mask use. The data were compatible with lesser degrees of self-protection

> "This rando on YouTube agrees with me"

In the YouTube I linked to She is a medical professional and she listed the research paper she referenced and we are not talking about hydroxychloroquine at all.

>Both amount: ( https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm )

So there is death to covid, i never refute this.

What is the evidence that mask can reduce this death ?

> from the results itself :

Again, taken from the "Limitations" section:

"no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others."

I never said that masks greatly help protect the individual, I said they help slow the spread of the pandemic.

> She is a medical professional

Any chance you could link me to here credentials then? Has she authored any peer reviewed papers?

Actually, I'll look her up. Presuming this [0] is her, she appears to have participated in... no peer reviewed research. In addition, on this [1] website, she both claims to be non political, and to have appeared on this list of shows... "The Tucker Carlson Show, The Ingraham Angle, The Glenn Beck Show, The Charlie Kirk Show, The Dennis Prager Show, Day Star Television"

So, despite her being an obvious liar, at least she is an emergency medical professional, I'll give her that. A shame she's not a virologist.

> What is the evidence that mask can reduce this death ?

We've been over this as well. Masks reduce pandemic reduces death.

Do you have any other sources?

---

[0] https://www.docinfo.org/search/docprofile?docid=CA796BDA-28F...

[1] https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/mission-statement/

And just for fun, this is a quote from the paper [0] cited in your YouTube video:

"Nevertheless, the overall 3.4 fold reduction in aerosol copy numbers we observed combined with a nearly complete elimination of large droplet spray demonstrated by Johnson et al. suggests that surgical masks worn by infected persons could have a clinically significant impact on transmission"

[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23505369/

Edit: article -> paper

>suggests that surgical masks worn by infected persons could have a clinically significant impact on transmission

could have, doesn't mean will have

and most people don't use surgical mask

From Above:

> You've moved the goalpost:

> Masks don't work -> Some masks don't work.

Edit: Also, really? You're going to be that pedantic? It's pretty obvious what the intent behind that sentence was.

Until you can provide a better source, I'm done.

for clarification, this is my stance: most mask that is used by general population doesn't work, at least for the purpose of preventing virus.

If you want to force people to wear mask(whether they want it or not) you better come up with strong evidence that it work and the benefit should be more than the downside.

At least I'm still willing to accept compromise by not against voluntary mask.

I know I said I was done, but I ran across this earlier:

https://thehill.com/policy/international/530628-swedens-king...

> If you want to force people to wear mask(whether they want it or not) you better come up with strong evidence that it work and the benefit should be more than the downside.

Already provided both, but we're not going back into that until you have more sources, preferably reputable ones that actually agree with you.

> At least I'm still willing to accept compromise by not against voluntary mask.

That's... not a compromise. That's literally where you started.

>https://thehill.com/policy/international/530628-swedens-king...

I disagree with him by calling it failed. the death rate is not significantly different compared to previous year and most importantly life is still pretty much normal.

>Already provided both, but we're not going back into that until you have more sources, preferably reputable ones that actually agree with you.

You haven't provided strong evidence so far, all the evidence you provided are inconclusive and insufficient.

>That's... not a compromise

What do you mean not compromise ? You wanted mask, I can't support forced mask but still willing to accept voluntary mask. Mask doesn't work but if you want to wear it then its your choice, I think its silly but I won't be against it. That's a compromise.

> That's a compromise.

No, that's a default. You doing your thing and me doing mine.

That's not what a compromise is.

>You doing your thing and me doing mine.

I'm ok with that. you want to wear your mask its up to you, as long as you are not forcing it to other people.

Yes, I know you are OK with that. I said it wasn't a compromise, it's the default.

Did you even read my comment?

Ok fine maybe we interpret compromise differently. Nonetheless I'm still against forced mask mandate.