Yes, what you described is normal. I do it quite a lot myself, especially if I am...

- replaying some sort of argument/confrontation or other high-stakes conversation from earlier in the day (simulating ways the conversation could have gone better--the best zingers are the ones you come up with in bed at night).

- preparing for an important presentation or meeting the next day (informal rehearsal).

- out hiking alone (especially longer solo backpacking trips). Without fresh content bombarding my brain, I tend to dwell on the same ideas/conversations.

- reading a particularly engrossing book, and get into a character from their point of view.

- studying something new, then I imagine myself tutoring someone else on the subject (my go-to learning technique).

Now if you find yourself having conversations that you were convinced are real at the time, but it later dawns on you that it never actually happened, then that might be something to talk (for real) to someone about.

For what it's worth, it may actually be healthier to not do these, particularly 1 and 3. You may be ruminating, and ruminating is not good for you - it can tire you, agitate you, cause you anxiety; also, you end up being in your thoughts and not in the moment (e.g. when hiking).

It is fine and good if you are doing it with purpose (e.g. tutoring someone else in your mind to understand something better, or trying to work out some problem that has a solution), but bad if you are trying to solve something unsolvable, dwelling on the past or worrying about the future, or just wasting your own CPU cycles.

This is something you can practice as part of mindfulness practice - getting spontaneous awareness that you are engaging in an unproductive internal dialogue and letting it go. Not fight it or stop it, but just let the thoughts come and go without engaging with them.

Good points, #1 can become especially loopy for me (my fight or flight response is jacked up to 11) to the point of being bothersome. When I notice it veering into unhealthy territory, I try to use mindfulness techniques to reel it in. Still, it's "normal" in that it's not indicative of mental illness other than maybe social anxiety.

But I disagree slightly on #3. My frame of reference is thru-hiking and/or intense solo missions where I'm alone in the backcountry hiking for 10-14 hours a day for days on end. In that setting, I find it impossible to stay mindful continuously. Also, without news/email/social media/etc. as input, I just find that my mind gravitates towards internal dialogues about the same big picture life issues. In that state, I'm actually listening to my body and mind more, not less. Personally, it can be frustrating to worry about whether I'm "in the moment" enough (the quintessential frustration with mindfulness, I know).

That said, I do try to mix it up between fully immersing myself in the wonderment of the wilderness, letting my mind chew on ideas, listening to podcasts/music, and sometimes attempting actual meditation sessions.

Reading this whole thread makes me wonder if such internal dialogue is correlated with a sensitive fight or flight response (on which I can also relate) and anxiety. When I practice daily meditation, limit my computer/phone/internet usage, I find that both tend to subside, so maybe there is something to it, although the cause and effect could all be tangled up here.

One definitely should not be frustrated or worrying about being in the moment! I agree that it is all normal in the sense that one shouldn't be worrying about any of these habits. It's just that for me it was a revelation when after many many years I realized that I do not have to have/follow internal dialogues and that they may actually causing me tension and anxiety.

This is some great advice! Any tips on how to be mindful? Can you direct me to some resources which are helpful?

The go-to resource that is usually suggested is The Mind Illuminated by John Yates. I found it to be a very nice tutorial-like guide to meditation with hardly any spiritual/religious bullshit, and it breaks it down into stages so you get some idea of where you are at and what progress you are making (even though progress is not really something you should be focusing on with this).

The introductory course on the Headspace app I also found good but I think it is better to not stay on it beyond that.

If your thoughts keep you awake sometimes I think you would definitely benefit greatly from this.

The Waking Up app by Sam Harris is a great way to get started - there is an introductory course I found very helpful.

Is there a distinction between "letting it go" and "bottling it up"?

I suppose bottling it up is not actually letting it go. If something bothers you on an intellectual level it will probably keep coming back and you need to resolve it. It's just that ruminating is not helpful in any case. It gives you an illusion of 'working on a problem' without actually doing anything useful.

The tutoring someone part is so relatable considering that I am in university and usually have these conversations after I learn some difficult concept.

This is very much a description of the modes I operate in! And I get very high levels of engagement with myself. My thoughts actually distract me a lot from real life verbal conversations as well. People think I'm not all there and I don't listen well, but in fact I'm just at a different wavelength and processing speed....

+1 on the "tutoring someone else". All the time. I think the saying goes: "You don't know something until you can explain it simply".

I can't give you any statistical evidence but at least anecdotal, I do tend to have a fair amount of imaginary conversations and often verbalize my half of them - and this includes hand gestures and head nods.

At one point I tried to cease this behavior because I had a perception it was negative, but I actually found my ability to be prepared for real conversations declined as well, so I've re-engaged the behavior. Visualization and behavioral rehearsal is something I've had several instructors for various things (weightlifting, target shooting, etc) encourage and at least for me it has panned out.

I think this might be common in people who are generally socially anxious. TBH, this helps me in my social conversations too as I think of jokes the day before I have a talk with my friends. But this has increased in the recent weeks and I am concerned whether it is "normal" or not.

Another poster pointed this out and they were quite correct, despite downvotes - "normality" isn't a goal. Normal is a section of the bellcurve and fitting into that curve isn't supposed to be a goal, it's just descriptive of a larger group.

The question should really be "does X behavior cause any problems in my life?" If it doesn't cause you problems then you're good, and if it does, then you should look to alleviate those problems (whether that's modifying the behavior or the situation). If playing out social situations does alleviate the anxiety and your only downside is sometimes the people in your house give you funny looks - well that's probably a worthwhile tradeoff. On the other hand, if the behavior is aggravating social anxiety, then it's worth talking to someone about.

Social anxiety falls under the generalized anxiety tree, and most people do feel some anxiety in social situations - but if it's disruptive to your life then it may be worth chatting with a therapist with. Most therapists are going to try and identify the specific causes and then give you tools to alleviate those feelings.

Thanks for the detailed reply! I am thinking of contacting the university mental health counsellor :)

Churchill famously prepared his quips

"Although these might have seemed off the cuff and spontaneous, they were generally carefully rehearsed, words carefully selected for punning potential, stored in his prodigious memory and then released on their unsuspecting recipient at the right moment"

https://winstonchurchill.org/the-life-of-churchill/life/man-...

I concur with this comment about social anxiety. After incorporating some mindfulness meditation into my daily routine, I have noticed a stark decline in how much I replay conversations (as per another comment here) and how much I rehearse potential future conversations (which never go the way you rehearse! Off topic: Mike Tyson’s quote is good here: “Everyone’s got a plan until they get punched in the face.”). I think both of these acts (past rumination and future rehearsal) are big parts of social anxiety that lessen with mindfulness.

As for having imaginary conversations with real people I know that are neither repeats of past conversations nor rehearsals of future conversations, I think there may have been a slight decline but I didn’t do a ton of this prior.

TL;DR: I think mindfulness meditation helps with this.

Thanks for the detailed reply! Will check up on mindfulness meditation.

I do this. Sometimes it's in preparation for a conversation I know I'm going to have soon. Sometimes it's just because someone's on my mind and maybe I have things I want to say to them but don't currently have the opportunity to. I don't know if it's bad. But I don't like that I do it. And I wish I did it less.

I have had similar imaginary conversations like yours. But I am concerned because these conversations run in my mind for like several hours, even when I'm writing code.

You can talk to yourself out loud as if you were doing a screencast about whatever you're working on. Should override background verbal thinking. There are some positive correlations between self-talk and performance too, shouldn't hurt.

maybe u could buy a rubber duck and talk to it instead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging

I do this since I was a child. Not only do I imagine conversations, but also all kinds of interactions, including giving speeches, playing chess, fighting, etc.

My mouth and hands will move in accordance with those imaginations.

Absolutely me too. Especially the debates and speeches. It's actually very useful. I actually talk out loud. I don't talk out load what my debater/opponent is saying, that happens in my head!

Looking at your reply and others, I'm relieved :)

Yeah I thought I was the only one. My wife makes fun of me when she catches me doing it (usually when I don't realize she's in the room).

I have found a solution to sleeping. I put on a familiar tv show on my phone, face the phone down so I'm only listening to it (with comfy soft earphones), and I pass right out.

No more difficulty falling asleep. It has gotten me thru a very stressful time.

I do the same thing. I listen to No Such Thing as a Fish podcasts.

They're way too interesting and funny for me to sleep to (partly I get annoyed as I want a conversation on the topics)!

I have anxiety, somewhat, I need the right level of engagement but not too much interest then I can fall asleep. Rick & Morty, Brookly 99 do it for me - just enough to keep my mind from wandering, not enough to keep me awake.

Thanks for the tip! Will try tonight :)

Change focus when you catch yourself ruminating.

To change focus you must have a goto list of things that have a track record of leading your mind to some place healty and good.

I experienced this when I lived abroad. I moved to a new country for work and didn't know anyone or speak the language well at that point. This was before the internet enabled instant communication around the world, and my new timezone was on the opposite side of the planet from my home country, so I couldn't make phone calls to family without making a plan.

In any case, for the first month or so before I started my job, I was totally alone in my apartment and didn't have any conversations in my native language (English) the whole time. I began to have imaginary conversations with loved ones, both in dreams and in waking life, very much like the kind you describe.

I am one who has always been introverted and ok being alone, but this was an extremely disorienting experience. I coped by keeping a journal. The upside was that I eventually developed an ability to not feel lonely even while alone for long periods.

I am an introvert too and it seems like having these conversation are common among such people. I don't keep a journal, so I will look into that :)

I don't think if it is normal but I have imaginary conversations with friends for long time and before that I used to have conversations with imaginary friends. I also have normal talk with friends every once in a while. The way I see is that these imaginary conversations drastically reduce my needs to actually talk to people. Also IMO once I have has enough conversations with people I pretty much know what they will talk about next time in general unless they have some personal news to deliver. So in Claude Shannon's sense total information content is very low and I do not even find them funny to continue talking.

Now it all may be odd sounding thing but it seems okay for me as I do not look to confirm to any group nor looking for anyone to confirm to my ideas.

Same here. I got "caught" recently. They said "You were just talking to yourself out load". I said: "Yeah, I do that. Nothing wrong about that! It's actually very useful."

I don’t have any background to assert whether it’s normal or not - but FWIW I do that regularly.

I'm concerned because my mother has spotted me doing this several times. Given my social anxiety, a lot of these conversation cause discomfort.

My wife occasionally teases me after I have an imaginary debate with "So who won, you or the other guy?"

Write them out as dialogs like Aristotle.

I’ve been doing that for years and eventually the conversation with someone else vanished and it became simply my own inner monologue.

My gut points to the limbic-cortex feedback loop. Emotional vibe in the limbic system retrieves motor agency to recite a fact and relay it.

Our society pushes constant contact. Our cortex responds in that habit.

Over time the dialog with a friend seemed superfluous. As if my cortex finally learned to ignore that as part of fact retrieval.

Just a weird vibe from a one time shroom head. YMMV

I have them all the time, not just now but through my life. And I haven't felt "lonely" (in the sense of this article).

The concept of "normality" is kind of psychologically illiterate. What's worth asking is whether something's problematic or not, and the not being able to sleep part sounds like it might be problematic.

I talk to myself constantly, which always puts me to sleep, so in that case it's useful.

Yeah, by "normal" I was referring to my version of normal, which is not having these conversations so frequently that it disturbs your productivity.

I have DID, and one of the ways I ended up communicating with myself was through imagined friend contact.

This really sounds like you have a dissociative spectrum symptom. Up to 1 in 12 people are at the very least at the OSDD-1b spectrum, down to 1 in 100ish and > with DID, so it's super common.

Most people don't know they're systems, but usually it involves a lot of talking to one's self, having a lot of very distinct "modes", certain kinds of memory issues/weird amnesia/short term stuff, the ability/feeling like you could be really good friends with yourself (alternately, the ability to deeply hate yourself as well), and being able to go from having an amazing day to absolute raw terror, not even recognizing it because of emotional amnesia.

So yes, it is normal, and this sounds very system-ey. If you are a system, don't pass over this! Discovering your dissociative spectrum tendencies, if you have them, is very hard and requires a lot of effort, but it is a transition that is very significantly life-changing, in a very positive direction.

The most important thing is that if your identity is fragmented, most people only focus on meeting the needs/listening to the people near the front of the brain/consciousness, so the younger alters/personality states/people/etc. get ignored and there's always anxiety and never-ending loops of feeling a desperate need for something but not getting it (because communication between people in the brain -- and yes, they are individual people! you can share multiple people in a brain, it's just like your body is more of a mech than anything else -- is usually completely cut off with DID and vastly inhibited with dissociative spectrum disorders, but the emotions eventually build up under pressure and finally leak out there.)

2020, the year of the schizoid.