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Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by aussiegreenie on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:26PM (#25364295)
This just demonstrates the "price gap" between virtual and "real world" companies. An app with a few thousand uses with worth more than one of the world's best engineering companies.

Even if either has a path to profitability.

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by ialyos on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:36PM (#25364474)
Agreed.

Robots are very hard, and Boston Dynamics has been around for almost 40 years and still isn't anywhere close to making a lot of money.

Apps have added a lot more value to my life than BD ever has.

Fwiw I interviewed with BD a few years ago, and am focusing on robotics, so I'd like the opposite to be true

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by WhompingWindows on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:13PM (#25365090)
Computation existed for more than 40 years before apps started making a ton of money on it. If BD develops robotic platform-"workers" that can be trained in 5 seconds to do any manual labor, that's the new "app" that one would be making money off of in the future.
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by tibiahurried on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:42PM (#25364585)
> Apps have added a lot more value to my life than BD ever has.

This thinking will never take humans on Mars! Someone must work on hard, expensive problems.

Human race does won't move forward with a chat but with the hard work of scientist, engineers etc ...

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by jskajakzkjx on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:37PM (#25365519)
A lot of the hard work of scientists and engineers is enabled by chats, though.
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by jessaustin on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:59PM (#25365852)
"On the joyous and satisfying occasion of this, our first successful journey to Mars, we think back not only on all those who died along the way, but also on the Slack clone that allowed us avert disaster on this mission..."
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by teknopaul on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @06:16PM (#25366820)
I do wonder why we want humans on Mars. Given the huge amount of fossil fuels that must be burned on this planet to get us there. We may find Mars is dry and arid when we get there, and so is Earth.
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by dalbasal on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:50PM (#25364725)
I agree, and it's probably becoming a problem, but... I don't think this is a good example of that.

I mean, we're talking about the value of a business. Boston Dynamics is more of a research lab. They don't really have much in the way of revenue streams, customers, products, etc.

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by mywittyname on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:02PM (#25364914)
Cutting edge research is ultra-high risk-to-reward.

Some of the scientist and engineers working there might invent/discover what could be the most significant thing in human history for the next hundred years. Leading to a fabulous amount of wealth creation. But there's no guarantee the company financing all of this will be able to capitalize on that invention.

That's a lot of ifs. If people there invent something important; if the company sees the true value of the invention; if it is marketed in a way that makes money; if etc...

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by daotoad on Thursday December 10, 2020 @01:35AM (#25370534)
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by chadash on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:37PM (#25364488)
a) Boston Dynamics might be a cool company, but they don't seem to have a widely used product on the market (and they were founded 28 years ago).

b) Is there a specific app with just a few thousand users that sold for more than $1B?

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by libra1 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:38PM (#25365534)
Clubhouse was worth ~$100m with only 1,500 users in May; might be more now: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/20/clubhouse-app-is-where-mc-ha....
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by vonmoltke on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @06:03PM (#25366617)
Clubhouse was "worth" $100MM in the sense that A16z paid $12MM for 12% of it. That's not the same as someone paying $100MM for all of it.
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by hollerith on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @08:02PM (#25368078)
It's not exactly the same, but it is very similar.
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by ISL on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:37PM (#25364498)
Without detailed understanding of BD's assets and liabilities, it is difficult to assess a single deal.

If BD lives up to its perennial hype/technical-success and is not encumbered with significant liabilities, Hyundai may have gotten quite a deal.

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by jcims on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:18PM (#25365169)
The day Uber was 'worth' more than General Electric reformulated how I think about the stock market.
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by pvarangot on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:07PM (#25365003)
Boston Dynamics is a consulting company that uses some fun pet projects as PR. Consulting is a very tight margin business because it's used as some kind of arbitrage move between workforce and capabilities.

It doesn't matter if you are doing consulting with the most specialized meditation app UI researchers or the most specialized cyber-biology engineers with experience in exobiology and colonizing other celestial bodies. It's still consulting.

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by SilasX on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:38PM (#25364518)
I was going to cite concrete numbers for BD’s previous acquisitions — since I was certain I’d heard those figures being higher — but Wikipedia just gives the Google and SoftBank purchases as being undisclosed sums:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Dynamics#Company_histor...

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by agency on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:03PM (#25364931)
This Bloomberg article[1] claims the 2017 sale to Softbank was just $165 million. Compare that to SaaS valuations. Software is wild.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-17/boston-dy...

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by Darmody on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:37PM (#25364491)
We spend way more in software (also online services) than in hardware.
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by mandelbrotwurst on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:46PM (#25364642)
Do cars count as hardware? People spend a lot on those.
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by Darmody on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:07PM (#25364993)
That depends on how you look at it.

But it doesn't matter. A car costs a lot, yes, but the margin is not that big. You can't build a car and send the same unit to every buyer. While I can code once and sell the software to a million clients.

Tesla is the most valuable car company in the world and I think it has a lot to do with the software, not only the hardware.

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by freehunter on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:30PM (#25365395)
People spend a small amount of money on the hardware of a car, then spend a lot of money on the luxurious comfort and prestige upgrades.

Boston Dynamics makes utility robots that are cool from an engineering standpoint but not super useful (or even welcome) in someone's home. Hyundai makes a lot of sense, since these expensive-but-handy robots will fit in well with their other industrial robots and military equipment.

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by chubot on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:51PM (#25364734)
Well, there seems to be a clear downward trend in car purchasing, if you look at demographics (e.g. the move from suburbs back to cities)

Renting a service + car together via rideshare does have some fundamental economic efficiencies (depending on where you live, and other aspects the situation)

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by jayd16 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:55PM (#25364777)
Its about the margin though isn't it? They cost a lot to buy but they also cost a lot to make. How much value can Apple and Microsoft extract from you over the lifetime of a single car.
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by mywittyname on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:21PM (#25365236)
> How much value can Apple and Microsoft extract from you over the lifetime of a single car.

Probably less than Toyota has extracted from me in my lifetime already.

Cars are lower margin, but they are expensive in absolute dollars, and their purchase almost always involves leverage. A $35,000 car will typically earn the manufacture $3-7k in direct profits, the financing arm gets ~$1800, the dealership gets ~$600 (plus profits from extended warranties, service, etc). There's still a ton of money to be made in automobile manufacturing.

And that's for an average car (actually, below average, the median new car price is nearly $40k). Vehicles like Porsches or an F-150s have insanely high margins. Porsche has the highest margins in the industry (50% for the 911) by a comfortable amount and Ford reports the percentage of F-150s sold for over $50k in their annual reports, and have for years, because it's the most critical aspect of their bottom line.

Tech companies benefit from having really dispersed revenue streams: they make a few dollars off of billions of people while car companies make thousands of dollars off of a few million people.

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by blackrock on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @05:20PM (#25366088)
Cars are a consumable product. They only last about 10 years. Before you get bored of it and buy a new one. Or before it breaks down so often, that you must buy a new car.

Software, like Microsoft Office, is also consumable, in the sense that your computer burns out, or Microsoft makes its operating system end-of-life after 5 years. This forces you to buy a new license.

So if Toyota makes $3,000 in profit per car. And you replace your car in 10 years, then this is $300/year. Or about $25/month in profits to Toyota.

If it’s $7,000, then the monthly profits goes up to $58/month for Toyota.

So it’s the equivalent to a Netflix or Cable TV subscription for Toyota. But with the entrenched benefit that being a car manufacturer is big business, and there aren’t that many players in it.

What Toyota did was to make perfect, their vehicles, that they have such a loyal following. That their customers go back to them for every new car, decade after decade.

And plus, they make more money from their luxury brand, Lexus, and from their trucks.

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by blackrock on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @05:08PM (#25365951)
Maybe someone should make a company to turn cars to vehicle-as-a-service? VAAS

The first company to do this will own the market.

I think Tesla was trying to achieve this.

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by mandelbrotwurst on Thursday December 10, 2020 @12:49PM (#25376294)
You're describing leases.
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by blackrock on Thursday December 10, 2020 @02:42PM (#25377631)
No, not leases. You’d have to maintain the car yourself.

I’m describing more of a robotic Uber/Lyft, with Level 5 autonomous driving.

But not Uber, the company itself. Since we know they’re retarded, and wrote autonomous driving software that ran over a human. So we can’t trust them.

Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by formercoder on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:08PM (#25365016)
Has everything to do with margin, one of the biggest drivers of value.
Re:Hyundai to acquire Boston Dynamics by gopi on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:05PM (#25364976)
Bits > Atoms