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Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by trhway on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @11:52PM (#25355495)
And fortunately soon Musk will need fusion for Mars travel and colonies. He just personally got extra 100B to burn - i think SpaceX will start to hire nuclear scientists and engineers soon :)
Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by gpm on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @12:52AM (#25355759)
Fission seems like the better option for mars. The technology is ready now, and no one cares about a bit of nuclear waste on mars anyways.
Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by Mediterraneo10 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:56AM (#25356051)
Space probes require a minuscule amount of radioactive fuel, but launching that into space has still occasionally caused concern among environmentalists, as something might go wrong during launch. Can you imagine the resistance if someone wanted to launch enough processed uranium to support a Mars colony?
Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by nine_k on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @02:02AM (#25356078)
If it's a pebble bed design, easily.

Pebbles are uranium coated with multiple protective layers, extremely strong. They could be collected and reused if the launch vehicle plainly explodes on the launch pad.

Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by WJW on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @06:42AM (#25357606)
I think the problem is more when it explodes when the rocket is already going mach 10 and the resulting explosion scatters thousands of radioactive pebbles across several thousand square kilometres of Atlantic ocean, possibly hundreds of metres deep.
Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by Vecr on Thursday December 10, 2020 @05:23PM (#25379604)
Why's that a problem? The uranium won't leak out, the ocean will provide enough cooling, and even if it eventually does, it would be slowly and near the bottom, causing no problems at all.
Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by fpoling on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:34AM (#25356849)
The problem with space probes is that the radioactive fuel is highly radioactive plutonium. If probe explodes and plutonium disperses in atmosphere, that causes thousands deaths via lung cancer. Uranium does not causes that.
Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by pfdietz on Thursday December 10, 2020 @04:44AM (#25371782)
235U is not very dangerous at all before it has undergone a chain reaction. The oceans contains tens of millions of tonnes of the isotope.
Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by 08-15 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @06:50AM (#25357652)
Everything causes concern among environmentalists, even dihydrogen monoxide.
Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by trhway on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @03:37AM (#25356574)
yes, technically the next generation of Starships flying to Mars would be fission powered. Unfortunately the regulatory regime makes any fission related development close to impossible. Add to that practical unavailability of fission fuel - even NASA has issues getting those mere kilograms of plutonium, and even Musk wouldn't be able to get nor breeder reactor, nor enrichment plant (here on Earth i mean).

As a result, the fusion "in 20 years" is much more plausible and feasible for the likes of SpaceX than fission.

Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by Hammershaft on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @08:31AM (#25358234)
the physics of Fission work better (or work at all, really) at scale. Fitting the weight and size of a fusion reactor on a rocket ship strikes me as impossible for the forseeable future.
Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by marcosdumay on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:53AM (#25359856)
Fusion should lead to unbeatable specific impulses, so the huge size of a reactor may not be a problem at all. (Or maybe it is, I don't think anybody can be sure before there are actually working reactors out there.)
Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by pfdietz on Thursday December 10, 2020 @04:47AM (#25371813)
> Fusion should lead to unbeatable specific [impulse]

No, because the effective specific impulse is so low, as a fusion reactor will only be able to fuse a small fraction of its mass before it is too radiation damaged to work. ITER, for example, would take 300,000 years to fuse its own mass in fusion fuel, but no DT reactor could operate more than a few years (if that) before parts need replacing.

If you want high effective specific impulse and high thrust at high specific impulse, beamed power is the way to go.

Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by tuatoru on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @02:44PM (#25363543)
Since we're talking about things that don't exist: -

We should be able to beat fusion's Isp with direct matter to energy conversion.

Certainly the mass of fuel needed will be 3 OM lower.

Edit to add: Isp is a measure of velocity. The thing about velocity is, energy goes quadratically but momentum imparted to the vessel (the impulse) only goes linearly with velocity.

Since no process can be 100% efficient, you're dealing with quadratically more and more waste heat from the engines. And space is an excellent insulator.

Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by marcosdumay on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @04:19PM (#25365203)
Well, if you create a nice way to make and store anti-matter, you would basically solve rocketry on any place that humans could ever care about going to.

There are people researching that too, but not as many as fusion. And well, determining the capacity of things that don't exist is the first step on the work of making them exist.

Re:U.S. physicists rally around plan to build fusion power p... by adrianN on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @02:34AM (#25356234)
Solar works reasonably well on Mars, and if that's not enough fission is much easier.