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Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by tmountain on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @09:41AM (#25345716)
I saw Glass at a performing arts center in my hometown. The PAC has a lot of season ticket holders, and Glass' music triggered an older attendee to march to the front of the auditorium and yell, "this isn't music". He was quickly ushered out by his wife, but Glass was noticeably smirking, and the whole thing really added to the avant garde vibe of the performance. Amazing concert BTW. One of my favorite artists.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by JoeDaDude on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @12:18PM (#25348269)
Steve Reich mentioned a similar anecdote in which an audience member came up to the stage and banged on it with his shoe demanding that the playing be stopped.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by enneff on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @03:16PM (#25350752)
Imagine being so arrogant as to demand a performance be stopped rather than just leaving.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by nefitty on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @12:45PM (#25348718)
Similar things have happened to me when me and my previous punk band used to play at unsuspecting bars hahaha. I love Glass and Reich even more now!
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by marshray on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @05:54PM (#25352656)
I saw the same thing happen 2002-ish.

Have to admit I was a little disappointed to find that wasn't part of the show.

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by holri on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @12:52PM (#25348831)
There was a Skandalkonzert conducted by Schönberg in the Viennese Musikverein which lead to a slap and a lawsuit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skandalkonzert
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by AndrewUnmuted on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:12AM (#25346179)
The label "avant-garde" is surprising to see used to describe Philip Glass's works. What performance were you attending?
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by tmountain on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @11:30AM (#25347456)
A performance at the University of Florida Performing Arts center here in Gainesville. This was back in the nineties.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by barbecue_sauce on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:23AM (#25346348)
Philip Glass is constantly described as avant-garde. You may take issue with that label, but I hardly see how it can be surprising.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by AndrewUnmuted on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:31AM (#25346479)
It's a ridiculous label to apply to Philip Glass. He would likely reject it himself.

The word "avant-garde" comes up not once in Philip Glass's Wikipedia article [0]. The only uses of the word "experimental" are in reference to his early interest in experimental theater.

Philip Glass is easily the most popular, mainstream living music composer. His music is extremely "listenable," and inoffensive to the casual listener. Calling him avant-garde is a complete disservice to what he has actually accomplished in his career. It's more avant-garde to call Philip Glass avant-garde than his music is avant-garde.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Glass

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by garbagetime on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:41AM (#25346639)
> It's a ridiculous label to apply to Philip Glass.

I disagree.

>The word "avant-garde" comes up not once in Philip Glass's Wikipedia article The only uses of the word "experimental" are in reference to his early interest in experimental theater.

What's that meant to show? I opened the first four references on that Wikipedia article and all contained the phrase 'avant-garde':

[1]https://www.biography.com/musician/philip-glass

>Philip Glass is an Oscar-nominated avant-garde composer whose notable works include 'Einstein on the Beach,' 'The Hours' and 'Notes on a Scandal.'

[2]https://nymag.com/news/features/influentials/16903/

>Took the avant-garde mainstream, offering hope and inspiration to countless composer-followers.

[3]https://www.theguardian.com/education/2001/nov/24/arts.highe...

>The project that would propel Glass from downtown New York notoriety to international stardom came in 1976 - an avant-garde music theatre collaboration with theatre visionary Robert Wilson"

[4]https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_9ugCQfxwym0C/page/n5/mode...

OK, this one doesn't use the phrase in reference to Glass.

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by AndrewUnmuted on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:52AM (#25346850)
That's nice, but none of those references speak to the idea that Philip Glass is avant-garde. They simply (and inaccurately) apply this label to him, mainly because they're mainstream sources that do not actually cover Western art music.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by johnnujler on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @11:16AM (#25347218)
What’s up with the gate keeping dude? Philip is an experimental musician, avant-garde has an experimental aspect to it, so people like calling him that. Why fuss over a word?

And fwiw, things change, language is emergent, words acquire and lose meaning based on how people use it, not the other way around.

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by garbagetime on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @11:30AM (#25347473)
Personally, I'd be happy to be convinced that he's not an avant-garde composer. There might be some aspect to the term I'm not aware of. But "the word doesn't occur in the Wikipedia article" certainly isn't a very convincing point.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by PaulDavisThe1st on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @11:59AM (#25347943)
What aspects of music does Glass experiment with, in the 21st century?

In 1968, it was fair to call him an experimental composer and musician. In 2021, not so much, certainly no more than any composer who is alive and still trying to write new work.

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by jey on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @11:38AM (#25347614)
I'm interested; what's the definition of avant-garde as defined by the Western art music world?
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by rolfea on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @12:18PM (#25348264)
It really depends what time period you're referring to. Maybe broadly we could say that it's music that is either notably ahead of it's contemporaries in terms of innovation or that intentionally breaks out of stylistic models of its time to do something new.

So in those terms, Beethoven was at one point "avant-garde" in that his some of his compositions were so strikingly progressive compared to those of his contemporaries that they stood out. They were "at the front" of musical innovation in that sense.

John Cage started to compose music that intentionally and radically diverted from the trajectory of traditional western art music, so that was considered "avant-garde," although it was so influential, that I'd say much of it has become "canonized" in a way that performing it isn't really innovative of "edgy" in the way it was at it's original reception.

Today I think it's hard to pin down because there aren't really any established traditions that composers are breaking away from like they were at the cusp between the 19th and 20th centuries. I've seen and performed pieces for amplified fluorescent light bulbs, 4 screaming men in loin clothes, and for a solo performer articulating gestures in ASL to a pre-recorded musical track. None of it was scandalous, and some of it was quite good.

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by phlakaton on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @11:14AM (#25347186)
Avant-garde does not precisely mean “unlistenable.” There’s plenty of music that’s listenable but still way “out there.”

Glass’s music is maybe not consistently on the edge, but his avant-garde reputation comes from works like the “opera” Einstein On the Beach, which is a formidable listening and performing experience, even if it’s heavily diatonic and based on familiar major/minor modalities. It is a sui generis approach to musical structure and musical theater.

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by natechols on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @11:41AM (#25347653)
Einstein On The Beach is definitely on the extreme end. On the other hand, Itaipu (my personal favorite) and many of his symphonies are about as close to mainstream as modern "classical music" usually gets.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by PaulDavisThe1st on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @12:00PM (#25347957)
Bwahahahah. You think EotB is "on the extreme end". You've never heard "Music in Similar Motion", I assume?
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by natechols on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @12:03PM (#25348006)
I'll add that to my playlist, but I'd argue that the difference between 12 minutes and 5 hours counts for a lot! (Although I guess maybe opera audiences are primed for sitting in place for that long? I just don't have the attention span for anything longer than Figaro.)
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by PaulDavisThe1st on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @12:37PM (#25348590)
Scratch that then. Try out "Music in 12 Parts", which is about 4 hours long :)

Glass' early minimalism makes EotB seem almost conventional by comparison, at least to me.

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by phlakaton on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @09:13PM (#25438197)
I agree with Glass in that I don't think minimalism is the best term for what Glass does. Call it postmodern, maybe.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by Cd00d on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @01:35PM (#25349483)
>is easily the most popular, mainstream living music composer

But, this isn't an article about Danny Elfman....

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by samatman on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @03:29PM (#25350906)
I would have gone with John Williams, but I got a chuckle out of this.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by wirrbel on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:42AM (#25346671)
Congrats you discovered discovered minimal music.

Clearly looking at his age he is already an elder. Nevertheless he definitely qualifies as avant- Garde. You can compose listenable pieces and be avant- garde

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by AndrewUnmuted on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:57AM (#25346929)
Minimalism was "avant-garde" when it was explored as a response to Serialism. Its history is comprised of works that would be considered unlistenable to most audiences.

Calling any modern regurgitation of Glass's very-listenable minimalism "avant-garde" is misleading and shuts out the contemporary listener to an entire world of avant-garde music - much of it, very listenable.

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by alasdair_ on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @12:54PM (#25348883)
>Calling any modern regurgitation of Glass's very-listenable minimalism "avant-garde" is misleading and shuts out the contemporary listener to an entire world of avant-garde music - much of it, very listenable.

I'm not convinced that someone simply using the word "avant-garde" shuts anyone out of anything.

For example, if I type "Taylor Swift is avant-garde" did this suddenly shut out listeners from an entire world of pop music?

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by majormajor on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @12:48PM (#25348759)
> Calling any modern regurgitation of Glass's very-listenable minimalism "avant-garde" is misleading and shuts out the contemporary listener to an entire world of avant-garde music - much of it, very listenable.

I think that's reinforced by the anecdote from the original poster, though.

There's still a significant fraction of the audience who dismisses his work out of hand. Yes, they're shut out of even more stuff, but they aren't even open to him, yet.

I could see my mother being the upset person in the first story...

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by easytiger on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:24AM (#25346376)
Unrelated anecdote, but I once went to a 3 hour John Cage concert. Genuinely awful, and about as thought provoking as a piece of cardboard.

That was avant-garde, apparently.

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by jan_Inkepa on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @11:19AM (#25347280)
One should always be wary of going to a concert with music only by a single composer that one doesn't know. :P I try to check there's some variety on the programme, that way I can with high confidence expect to enjoy at least 5 minutes per hour (and so long as I get that I'm happy).
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by AndrewUnmuted on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:46AM (#25346733)
Yes, John Cage is probably the most well-known "avant-garde" composer.

Calling music by this term communicates a powerful judgment about its place in musical history. And it is simply, unavoidably incorrect. It has nothing to do with the music itself - it has to do with his musical process and how it jives with the basic musical environment of his time.

If the whole musical world were like John Cage, Philip Glass's works would definitely be avant-garde. But because the musical world is a lot more like Philip Glass, using the word "avant-garde" to describe his contributions is simply untrue.

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by easytiger on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @12:11PM (#25348143)
Yes indeed. A lady playing a cactus was the point at which we decided to take our leave, around the 3 hour mark.

I struggled and read a lot to understand the foundations of modern art. I found a lot of the intellectual constructions very unconvincing contrivances. I imagine I'd feel the same way about such compositions; an area in which I am certainly a neophyte

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by rolfea on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @12:23PM (#25348346)
maybe you've come across it, but Silverman's biography does a good job tracing how Cage came to a lot of his compositional convictions.

I don't think it would convince you to enjoy his work, but I found it to be a really good read, regardless!

https://www.amazon.com/Begin-Again-Biography-John-Cage/dp/08...

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by kaybe on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @05:35PM (#25352409)
May I ask, how does one play a cactus?
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by ratww on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @07:27PM (#25353650)
Put a microphone in/close to it. Either a contact microphone or a regular one. Strike the thorns (spines?), bow it with a violin bow, drag your fingers on it. Apply electronic effects to taste.

Here's an Unplugged version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVjwEmzxy_w

Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by rolfea on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @09:22PM (#25354581)
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by jedimastert on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:23AM (#25346349)
I agree. He was required reading in several of my music degree courses
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by andrewljohnson on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @09:42AM (#25345740)
I wonder if there is any chance that's stagepersonship.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by jedimastert on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:22AM (#25346337)
I think I trust Phillip Glass a bit more than that.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by hypertele-Xii on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @10:11AM (#25346170)
Paid actor.
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by jtbayly on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @11:11AM (#25347136)
You mean stagemanship?
Re:Philip Glass: My problem is people don’t believe I write ... by pnut on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @01:29PM (#25349393)
You mean venueentityvessel?