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Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by userbinator on Friday December 04, 2020 @11:06PM (#25311646)
"Wanna bet...?"

I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were some original embedded systems still running machinery and the like in a century from now, catastrophic events notwithstanding. The sort of low-power embedded systems likely to be running DOS don't really experience any wear. There's quite a bit of equipment in the "low-level" manufacturing industry which is around a century old, and has basically been in continuous operation since it was installed.

Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by kevin_thibedeau on Saturday December 05, 2020 @01:20AM (#25312288)
Their capacitors will die. In the power supply this could destroy unobtanium parts.
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by yjftsjthsd-h on Saturday December 05, 2020 @02:36AM (#25312642)
Capacitors are replaceable, and in fact the process of replacing them is already a routine operation in the retrocomputing community.
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by Iv on Saturday December 05, 2020 @01:25AM (#25312310)
I don't think any hardware running MS-DOS will survive that long.
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by flomo on Saturday December 05, 2020 @01:38AM (#25312367)
Modern x86 PCs still can boot DOS, no? (If not, sounds like a bug.)

The bigger issue would be ISA control cards and the like. A HN user recently posted a link of "new" ISA boards for sale, but the latest CPU support was Pentium 4 (about 20 years ago).

Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by userbinator on Saturday December 05, 2020 @02:05AM (#25312492)
but the latest CPU support was Pentium 4

No, you can find plenty of ones that will hold a recent i7:

https://www.dfi.com/product/index/1502

https://ipc.msi.com/product_detail/Industrial-Motherboard/AT...

http://ibase-usa.com/english/ProductDetail/EmbeddedComputing...

(I wish they would make "ultimate" mobos with all the interfaces in between too --- I mean if ISA with a Coffee Lake CPU is possible, how about a pair of IDEs, floppies, and parallel ports too...)

Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by xxpor on Saturday December 05, 2020 @09:30AM (#25314771)
A board with ISA, Extended ISA, PCI, AGP, PCI-X and PCIe would be fun.
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by exikyut on Saturday December 05, 2020 @09:44AM (#25314871)
Are there PCI IDE+floppy+parallel(+serial+joystick+PS/2+etc) controllers out there that are bug-for-bug indiscernible from the controllers mounted on motherboards?
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by flomo on Saturday December 05, 2020 @09:16AM (#25314695)
Good to know - thanks.
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by Iv on Saturday December 05, 2020 @01:45AM (#25312392)
I am not even sure of that. Booting DOS requires a legacy BIOS mode and some legacy video modes that I am not sure manufacturers support anymore.
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by djxfade on Saturday December 05, 2020 @05:59AM (#25313559)
I think most (if not all) modern PCI-E GPUs still supports this. If I am not mistaken, this is what is preventing them from working on ARM right now (Raspberry PI 4, Apple M1, etc.), because the driver expect specific BIOS features
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by exikyut on Saturday December 05, 2020 @09:47AM (#25314902)
Aaaand that's why X11 has an x86 (v86) emulator in it, so Suns (circa late 90s/early 2000s) could use PC-focused graphics cards with BIOSes containg x86 initialization code.

._.

Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by tjoff on Saturday December 05, 2020 @04:55AM (#25313216)
USB to ISA adapters do exist. I'm sure there are compatibility edge-cases but not sure a P4 would be perfectly safe from that either.

http://arstech.com/install/ecom-prodshow/usb2isa.html

Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by voxadam on Saturday December 05, 2020 @07:22AM (#25314012)
The problem with such adapters is that being USB based they're timing is far from deterministic. One very common use case for ISA based interfaces is industrial automation where realtime determinism is very common requirement.
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by beagle3 on Saturday December 05, 2020 @09:04AM (#25314626)
Doesn’t usb support isochronous scheduling? It did for v1.0
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by msla on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:20AM (#25312804)
> Modern x86 PCs still can boot DOS, no?

Even if you assume it can boot DOS, it doesn't mean it can run DOS. No DOS has drivers for a lot of modern hardware, and they're never going to be written.

> (If not, sounds like a bug.)

BIOS is buggy? Say it ain't so! Say! It! Ain't! So!

Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by jlgaddis on Saturday December 05, 2020 @08:20AM (#25314336)
My ~4-year-old workstation -- with a pair of 8C/16T Xeons, 128 GB of RAM, and NVMe storage in a PCIe slot (not to mention everything else) -- boots into and runs FreeDOS just fine.

Additionally, over the last several years, I've used it on probably a dozen or more different "makes and models" of enterprise server hardware to update firmware (BIOS/HBA/NIC/SSD) and can't recall experiencing any major issues while doing so (fortunately, more and more of these bootable firmware update utilities are now Linux-based!).

That's with FreeDOS 1.0, by the way. A quick check shows that it was released in 2006, making it a fair bit older than the servers I most recently used it on. For what it's worth, FreeDOS 1.2 was released four years ago and the third release candidate of 1.3 was just released this past summer. It seems that FreeDOS, at 26, is still alive and, in fact, doing quite well!

To be clear, I've not actually attempted to boot any of the other DOS systems in, well, quite a long time -- at least 10 years for MS-DOS and likely 20 years or more for DR-DOS and PC-DOS -- as I haven't had any reason to. FreeDOS has been a superior replacement since before the turn of the century.

In my case, FreeDOS is booted via (i)PXE and the "hard disk" (image), which contains the various firmware images, utilities, etc., is downloaded via HTTP and loaded as a ramdisk. In those rare instances when it's actually been needed, it is just so absolutely useful.

Honestly, I'd be a bit surprised if MS-DOS (a.k.a. PC-DOS) did not (for the most part) also "just work"(TM) ...

... and, now that I've said that, I'm fairly confident that MS-DOS 5.0 (1991, IIRC?) is also available on the netboot server. I can't confirm that at the moment but (assuming it is) now I'm quite curious so I'll try to remember to try booting my workstation into it the next time I happen to restart it.

Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by bonzini on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:51AM (#25312921)
Just virtualize it or even emulate x86 on ARM. You can even emulate an ISA bus over GPIO.
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by jbay808 on Saturday December 05, 2020 @02:48AM (#25312694)
I wonder how many transit systems worldwide are running on DOS right now?
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by Frenchgeek on Saturday December 05, 2020 @10:29AM (#25315226)
Or in the industrial sector: Milling machines running Windows 95/98 (fun times getting it to talk with windows 10 on the network) or working with floppies are still around: Those beasts are too expensive to not run until dead.
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by Iv on Saturday December 05, 2020 @05:25AM (#25313368)
And will for 80 more years?
Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by jbay808 on Saturday December 05, 2020 @06:35AM (#25313756)
Ah, yeah the hardware probably won't still be running in 2107, but will be running in 2040.

Of course, if New York's subway controls are anything to go by, 2107 is pretty reasonable.

Re:The future of 32-bit Linux by imhoguy on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:25AM (#25312826)
I guess some said same about buildings and bridges centuries ago.