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Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by the_af on Thursday November 26, 2020 @10:57AM (#25221071)
Honest question, because I genuinely don't know: aren't there any Linux distros that run decently on ARM? If not, why?
Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by lbotos on Thursday November 26, 2020 @11:00AM (#25221090)
Yes, many, but most ARM machines are currently "Single Board Computers" (SBC) and the performance is not M1 level. 2020 appears to very much be "year of ARM" with Graviton, and now the M1 chip looking very good.

EDIT: gravitation -> graviton

Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by lizknope on Thursday November 26, 2020 @11:15AM (#25221215)
There are a few ARM server motherboards but most of them are either based on older hardware and/or the product lines have been discontinued.

I think you mean "Graviton" which is Amazon's custom processor using ARM Neoverse cores. You can't buy one of them as your own machine but you can use it through the Amazon cloud.

https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/graviton/

Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by m4rtink on Thursday November 26, 2020 @11:30AM (#25221338)
Most major Linux distros run on ARM just fine, thats not the problem.

Undocumented custom Apple hardware with proprietary MacOS only drivers & locked up bootloader is the problem.

Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by MaxBarraclough on Thursday November 26, 2020 @12:01PM (#25221682)
> Most major Linux distros run on ARM just fine, thats not the problem.

To add some detail to this: you can spin up an AArch64 server VM on Amazon AWS. You're given the choice of which OS you'd like. The usual GNU/Linux suspects are there, Debian, Ubuntu, Red Hat, SUSE. You can also go with FreeBSD. [0]

The Raspberry Pi also runs various distros, as tinus_hn points out.

[0] https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-cloud/2019-April...

Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by ogre_codes on Thursday November 26, 2020 @01:53PM (#25222640)
> locked up bootloader is the problem.

Apple has documentation up on how to self-sign your own binaries for installing whatever you want on M1 bare metal.

> proprietary MacOS only drivers

Drivers are specific to an OS, calling them proprietary is redundant. It would be a great service to the community if Apple were to release Linux drivers or at least specs so someone else could write them. But if you want unix running on Mac hardware, the best experience is almost always going to be running MacOS.

(Until of course Apple stops shipping MacOS for the current hardware)

Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by zamadatix on Thursday November 26, 2020 @02:44PM (#25222988)
> Drivers are specific to an OS, calling them proprietary is redundant.

Not at all, proprietary means it's closed source it has nothing to do with which OS it's for e.g. Nvidia has proprietary drivers for more than just one OS.

This leads into the rest of your comment in that Apple doesn't need to flat out make Linux drivers as a service to the community (though that would be great) rather they could simply share the info needed about their existing software or about the hardware so the community could focus on coding a driver instead of reverse engineering proprietary hardware and software.

Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by ogre_codes on Friday November 27, 2020 @12:58AM (#25225863)
> Not at all, proprietary means it's closed source

You are correct. For some reason I had a whole other idea of what you meant in your previous comment.

Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by the_af on Thursday November 26, 2020 @03:21PM (#25223243)
> Drivers are specific to an OS, calling them proprietary is redundant.

Software being proprietary is independent of whether it's specific to an OS. I can write FOSS apps specifically for macOS. Drivers can also be FOSS.

> But if you want unix running on Mac hardware, the best experience is almost always going to be running MacOS

Maybe. If the standards get completely opened, no proprietary components or drivers, it remains to be seen which one would be best.

Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by ogre_codes on Thursday November 26, 2020 @03:36PM (#25223340)
> Software being proprietary is independent of whether it's specific to an OS.

I've never really associated "Proprietary" with Open versus Closed source.

> Maybe. If the standards get completely opened, no proprietary components or drivers, it remains to be seen which one would be best.

It's been a while since I've used desktop Linux regularly so it's hard for me to say. Apple more or less designed this processor for running iOS & MacOS though so its going to have an edge regardless of quality of Linux drivers.

Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by the_af on Thursday November 26, 2020 @04:21PM (#25223611)
> I've never really associated "Proprietary" with Open versus Closed source.

But that's what it's about, more or less: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software. While exact definitions of open, closed and proprietary software vary, no mainstream definition is related to "specific to an OS". Software can be single/multiplatform and it can be FOSS/proprietary, and those two axes are independent.

> Apple more or less designed this processor for running iOS & MacOS though so its going to have an edge regardless of quality of Linux drivers.

If Apple retains some "secret magic sauce", sure. However, on a level field, with full access to the hardware for everyone who asks, who can say?

Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by ogre_codes on Friday November 27, 2020 @12:48AM (#25225826)
> But that's what it's about, more or less

It makes sense. Just not really a term I would use that way so never occurred to me in that context.

> If Apple retains some "secret magic sauce". However, on a level field, with full access to the hardware for everyone who asks, who can say?

That's not really what I was thinking.

If you build the CPU and the OS together, you can make optimizations which aren't available to more modular systems.

Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by numpad0 on Thursday November 26, 2020 @12:10PM (#25221769)
There’s no IBM PC/AT for ARM to fork from.

So there are duplicate and diverse attempts to design purpose built ARM computers.

Just as it was with PowerPC Macs, ThinkPads, Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, router appliances, etc., that were all built on PowerPC CPU, “ARM platform PC” are usually not designed to run kernel binaries complied for any other machines.

There are recent attempts by SoC vendors to change that, too early to call widespread or matured just yet.

e: words

Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by tinus_hn on Thursday November 26, 2020 @11:53AM (#25221581)
The Raspberry PI is an ARM system so anything that can run on that runs on ARM.
Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by the_af on Thursday November 26, 2020 @12:19PM (#25221849)
Thanks! I feel dumb now: I own an RPI2 running Linux and a C64 emulator, and I didn't make the connection when asking my question :P
Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by fsflover on Thursday November 26, 2020 @05:12PM (#25223894)
There are even ARM laptops designed for GNU/Linux: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine64#Notebook_computers.
Re:Ubuntu successfully virtualized on M1 by danpeddle on Thursday November 26, 2020 @10:58AM (#25221084)
Manjaro ARM is great. I use it daily with sway.

I haven’t tried docker, but given the widevine hack used it, presume all is ok on that front.