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Re:The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poi... by pjc50 on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:52AM (#25186215)
We could do with different words for these. You're right that from the perspective of both electronics engineers and sociologists there are all sorts of "control systems" that affect behaviour. It's the great achievement of Weberist "modern" societies to take control away from individual chains of authority (feudalism) and into impersonal systems (bureaucracy, police, capitalism). But the individual lived experience of being controlled can still be oppressive.

We swing backwards and forwards between trying to hold individuals accountable for system-caused behaviour vs trying to change "the system" which is both huge and thwarted by individual actions.

Re:The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poi... by TeMPOraL on Monday November 23, 2020 @09:05AM (#25186857)
What categories do we want to separate using different words?

About control systems, I think it would be good for general population to be more aware of just how many various control systems they're a part of, usually as a Manipulated Variable (in process control parlance). It's not just "the police" or "the government" or "the market" - it's every advertiser, every company they deal with, various branches of government, possibly even their HOA. Basically everyone that can persuade you or has power over you, that stands to benefit from particulars of your behavior.

The key aspect here is that these systems are usually impersonal and amoral, they don't care about people who are being used as MVs. There's also very many of them. It's not a question of being influenced or not, but of limiting your exposure to the systems that harm you.

Re:The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poi... by pjc50 on Monday November 23, 2020 @09:51AM (#25187268)
Yes, I was trying to separate "impersonal control" from "personal control". A traffic cone is a control system that's impersonal both in its placement and in who it's aimed at.

> It's not a question of being influenced or not, but of limiting your exposure to the systems that harm you.

Indeed. Or changing those systems.