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Re:The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poi... by TeMPOraL on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:04AM (#25185827)
> That's complete and utter conspiracy nonsense because control implicates intentions, but the media - and especially social media - are not directed by a uniform actor with intentions.

Not from the systems perspective, it doesn't. It requires a set point, an ability to measure deviation from that set point, and an ability to influence a factor that can reduce said deviation.

It's not a conspiracy theory to observe that news publishing is first and foremost a for-profit enterprise. That the primary, overriding goal of any private news agency is making money to survive and pay its owners. It's not a conspiracy theory to observe that news publishing is controlled to maximize that primary goal. It's also not a conspiracy theory to notice that people's behavior is influenced by the news - and here you have all the components you need for a feedback control loop.

If you notice that ad-based revenue model makes media profits proportional to "engagement", and that fear and hatred are some of the most strong emotions out there, you arrive at the reason why news publishing is trying to turn everyone into afraid, hateful bigots. It's how they make money. There's no conspiracy theory involved, just free market at work.

That there's no single actor with intentions and explicit goals - it only makes the phenomenon more robust.

Re:The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poi... by pjc50 on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:52AM (#25186215)
We could do with different words for these. You're right that from the perspective of both electronics engineers and sociologists there are all sorts of "control systems" that affect behaviour. It's the great achievement of Weberist "modern" societies to take control away from individual chains of authority (feudalism) and into impersonal systems (bureaucracy, police, capitalism). But the individual lived experience of being controlled can still be oppressive.

We swing backwards and forwards between trying to hold individuals accountable for system-caused behaviour vs trying to change "the system" which is both huge and thwarted by individual actions.

Re:The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poi... by TeMPOraL on Monday November 23, 2020 @09:05AM (#25186857)
What categories do we want to separate using different words?

About control systems, I think it would be good for general population to be more aware of just how many various control systems they're a part of, usually as a Manipulated Variable (in process control parlance). It's not just "the police" or "the government" or "the market" - it's every advertiser, every company they deal with, various branches of government, possibly even their HOA. Basically everyone that can persuade you or has power over you, that stands to benefit from particulars of your behavior.

The key aspect here is that these systems are usually impersonal and amoral, they don't care about people who are being used as MVs. There's also very many of them. It's not a question of being influenced or not, but of limiting your exposure to the systems that harm you.

Re:The CIA's Quest for Mind Control: Torture, LSD and a 'Poi... by pjc50 on Monday November 23, 2020 @09:51AM (#25187268)
Yes, I was trying to separate "impersonal control" from "personal control". A traffic cone is a control system that's impersonal both in its placement and in who it's aimed at.

> It's not a question of being influenced or not, but of limiting your exposure to the systems that harm you.

Indeed. Or changing those systems.