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Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by perlgeek on Saturday November 21, 2020 @03:51PM (#25172663)
If you pay for maintenance from the general budget, you are allowing shipping companies (for example) to externalize cost that they incur on society.

This is generally a bad thing, but very concretely it led to road traffic growing much faster than rail traffic (or canal ship traffic) even in countries with a very dense rail network.

Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by URSpider94 on Saturday November 21, 2020 @06:14PM (#25173463)
This, and it also subsidizes people’s decisions to live far away from where they work and commute by car every day. There was a time when I think that would have been seen as a public good, and thus people were ok with that. Now is not that time.

Comparing this with free public education, by not charging user fees to attend school, we are subsidizing (a) having children, and (b) educating them at the expense of the childless and I guess people who don’t want to educate their kids. We subsidize those because we believe they are truly public goods that are better for everyone in the long run. Encouraging people to drive more and ship more things by truck is not necessarily better for everyone.

Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by FpUser on Saturday November 21, 2020 @06:34PM (#25173547)
>"This, and it also subsidizes people’s decisions to live far away from where they work and commute by car every day."

Hence greatly increasing chances of finding better or any employment and at least partially reducing pressure employers can come up with.

  ...
  You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
  Another day older and deeper in debt
  Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
  I owe my soul to the company store 
  ...
Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by URSpider94 on Sunday November 22, 2020 @03:28AM (#25175918)
That’s an interesting take. I mostly think of it in terms of urban sprawl - if it weren’t for the massive multi-lane freeways leading out to the countryside, people would live in higher-density housing close to city centers and transit hubs, and businesses would locate there as well. You’d still have a lot of choice about where to work, you’d just get there by bike, or train, or bus, or on foot. That’s how it is in Japan, Korea and most places in Europe I’ve been.
Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by FpUser on Sunday November 22, 2020 @09:21AM (#25177642)
>"That’s how it is in Japan, Korea and most places in Europe I’ve been."

To each their own.

Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by peterwoerner on Saturday November 21, 2020 @09:39PM (#25174450)
Most public schools I have been a part of charge "optional" fees. There seems to be constant fund-raising for both extracurricular activities and general school funds as well as requests from students for classroom supplies. The bulk of the funding comes from the school taxes.
Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by URSpider94 on Sunday November 22, 2020 @03:14AM (#25175864)
Definitely, the first thing we heard when our kid started in pubic school was “public school is not free,” meaning that the parent committee expects lots of donations to offer enrichment.

That said, you should listen to the podcast “Nice White Parents.” It points out that this model of underfunding the schools and making up for it with donations is essentially letting wealthy families buy their way out of the problem while leaving disadvantaged students behind.

Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by vl on Sunday November 22, 2020 @05:01AM (#25176270)
Public education is not “free”, we pay for it with out taxes. And right now we are paying, and our children are not getting an education...
Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by Aerroon on Saturday November 21, 2020 @06:15PM (#25173465)
In a sense, every company externalizes some costs to society. At the same time, society tends to benefit from their existence more than just the service they provide. It would be very difficult to try to balance out those numbers.
Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by hnick on Sunday November 22, 2020 @03:18AM (#25175885)
Trade and economy are vital for a modern society though. If costs were instead born by the shipping companies they'd be put into the price of goods sold.

I can't help but see this as a regressive use tax in many ways, since it'll likely apply to lower value items at a higher proportion which is what poorer people would be buying. The end user pays in either case, but doing it through taxation policy allows for a measured approach.

Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by URSpider94 on Sunday November 22, 2020 @03:34AM (#25175935)
It’s a little bit regressive as you mention, but forcing the users to pay also encourages businesses to find ways to economize and thus minimize the impact of the tax on their customers. It’s also less regressive to pass along a small amount of tax in the cost of items (the portion of the cost of most things we buy made up by transportation costs is very small, and the tax is a small portion of that), than it is to burden car-less poor people with the cost of building roads that they don’t drive on.
Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by hnick on Sunday November 22, 2020 @03:46AM (#25175982)
That actually sounds sensible so maybe you're right.

Here in Sydney we just opened a tolled tunnel, and to ease congestion up above on the older commuter road all trucks must use this tunnel. I don't know all the factors but it sounds like the best option for the people, they have a choice and trucks pay their way.

Re:Victoria follows South Australia and imposes electric car... by refurb on Saturday November 21, 2020 @06:23PM (#25173498)
Externalizing the cost of using a national transportation network. I don’t think there is any citizen who doesn’t benefit from a national transportation network. How else do they get the food they buy, clothes they wear, etc?