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Re:Moderna Covid vaccine candidate almost 95% effective, tri... by jonplackett on Monday November 16, 2020 @03:00PM (#25116284)
I’m curious - why is there such a difference between them? What is it specifically about the pfizer one that requires a lower temp? Does anyone know what the other potential vaccines (Oxford in particular) will require?
Re:Moderna Covid vaccine candidate almost 95% effective, tri... by toufka on Monday November 16, 2020 @07:01PM (#25118737)
RNA is fragile. DNA is pretty stable. Proteins are somewhere in between but can be engineered to be very stable.

Most vaccines are a protein (originally a fragment from the (inactivated) virus, now more often a synthetically manufactured fragment of the virus).

These vaccines (Moderna & Pfizer) are delivered as the RNA that encodes a fragment of the virus (that your own body then uses to produce a fragment of the virus). The delivery mechanism is very different, but the viral fragment that your body sees is the same as it would if the protein was delivered directly, as is traditional.

RNA can't reliably survive on a surface for more than a few minutes (which is somewhat good news since coronovirus itself is an RNA virus), or more than a few days unrefrigerated, and is very sensitive to any contamination by bacteria or other organisms.

Traditional proteins are generally much less fragile both chemically and as food for other organisms. And sometimes a protein (vaccine) can be specifically engineered to be even more stable in room-temperature, dry, or other unforgiving conditions.

And none of this takes into account specific formulations, or other chemicals that are used to aide the delivery process. Much of this has to be measured empirically. It's not clear to me if there is some chemical difference between the Pfizer & Moderna vaccines, or if the different temps are just what they use as their protocol filed with the FDA.

Further, see /u/dnautics below, often RNA therapeutics aren't completely true RNA (they can have chemical features to enhance stability).

Re:Moderna Covid vaccine candidate almost 95% effective, tri... by contravariant on Monday November 16, 2020 @05:17PM (#25117768)
A biologists might be able to provide more detail but some big molecules are just inherently more stable than others, it can be incredibly tricky to predict this up front since it depends on complex interactions within the molecule itself. These are the kind of problems that projects like Folding@Home try to solve with lots of computing power (though I think they focus more on proteins, not sure if they also do RNA).
Re:Moderna Covid vaccine candidate almost 95% effective, tri... by deelowe on Monday November 16, 2020 @06:56PM (#25118687)
I read it mostly comes down to testing. Moderna is just further ahead and the pfizer vaccine may also survive higher temps.
Re:Moderna Covid vaccine candidate almost 95% effective, tri... by refurb on Monday November 16, 2020 @07:13PM (#25118836)
Pfizer release their data ahead of Moderna. How is Moderna "ahead"?

And no, stability testing happens pretty early on. Pfizer would have definitely collected enough data at this point to say whether or not their vaccine is stable at higher temperatures.

Re:Moderna Covid vaccine candidate almost 95% effective, tri... by bluGill on Monday November 16, 2020 @09:32PM (#25119707)
Pfizer released a press release, but as far as I can tell that isn't as much data. Given the time I'd guess that the mathematicians at Moderna worked all weekend crunching numbers and writing a paper (which is what I'd do if I was a statistician there).

Pfizer is big enough to have/let a PR department do a press release during business hours. Of course given that Pfizer did a press release first Moderna for PR reasons needed to release more data to make a bigger splash.

No matter how you look at it, there is important data that will be in the FDA (and equivalent in other countries) submission that we don't have. There could be a "thats funny" thing burred, though odds are against it.

Re:Moderna Covid vaccine candidate almost 95% effective, tri... by refurb on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @04:47AM (#25121838)
As far as I can tell, the Pfizer and Moderna "data releases" are identical. Basically press releases giving the top line result.

Pfizer hit their interim analysis point before Moderna did, but only by a few days.

Re:Moderna Covid vaccine candidate almost 95% effective, tri... by bluGill on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @08:08AM (#25123290)
They are not identical, unless (unknown to me, but possible) Pfizer has released more since the initial press release. Pfizer (again at least in the initial release) said a number of infections, and "at least 90% effective". Moderna released a number of infections and the number in that who got the placebo vs vaccine.

The difference is not very big, but to those who like numbers it is big enough.

Re:Moderna Covid vaccine candidate almost 95% effective, tri... by deelowe on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @06:00PM (#25131080)
I mean that Moderna has more data on storage than pfizer. They've been working on mrna vaccines for quite some time.