They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by jolux on Friday November 13, 2020 @11:48AM (#25084150)

This is based on information from BlueLeaks, which you're free to call fake spin, and I am free to disagree with you on.

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by ajvs on Friday November 13, 2020 @11:55AM (#25084246)

There's nothing in that article suggesting a false flag. At most Hina Shamsi suggests that leftist actions are being judged more harshly.

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by jolux on Friday November 13, 2020 @11:58AM (#25084289)

Fair enough. Why would right-wingers show up to a left-wing protest with violent intentions? There's no legitimate reason, but I apologize for extrapolating from their actions.

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by NicoJuicy on Friday November 13, 2020 @12:17PM (#25084608)

Escalating the situation and change public perception to "hurt the left" seems what I interpret from the situation.

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by ajvs on Friday November 13, 2020 @12:21PM (#25084677)

Left-wing protests throughout the summer have frequently turned violent, with it being directed at random passersby, police, businesses, etc. I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to by "violent intentions" but that it has happened frequently in the past is a legitimate reason why right-wingers would show up prepared for the fact that violence will likely commence.

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by jolux on Friday November 13, 2020 @12:37PM (#25084969)

You're dodging the question though. Why are right-wingers showing up to a left-wing protest movement in the first place, if they aren't counterprotesting? Wandering around with rifles is not a protest.

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by ajvs on Friday November 13, 2020 @01:21PM (#25085561)

Their presence is in itself counterprotest if you're able to figure out they're right-wing in the first place. I'm not sure what type of arbitrary behaviour you're looking for here.

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by jolux on Friday November 13, 2020 @01:23PM (#25085588)

It's intimidating to be walking around with guns drawn. That's what I'm trying to get at.

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by ajvs on Friday November 13, 2020 @01:33PM (#25085716)

It's also intimidating to try to counterprotest in the face of such a huge mob when there's been numerous instances of violence from them in the past. I certainly wouldn't go without a gun if I were to show up at one of these things lest someone see me as an easy victim.

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by jolux on Friday November 13, 2020 @01:39PM (#25085780)

You're just vastly overstating the prevalence of violence at these protests. Do you have evidence for these assertions or are you just throwing them blindly?

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by anonunivgrad on Friday November 13, 2020 @12:24PM (#25084735)

Is it a surprise that armed people would show up to oppose the trashing of their cities?

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by jolux on Friday November 13, 2020 @12:57PM (#25085252)

Yes, it is, because taking up arms is not how we deal with social problems in civilized society, and civilians are not authorized to use force against other civilians except in extreme circumstances involving a direct threat against one's life.

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by amanaplanacanal on Friday November 13, 2020 @01:18PM (#25085520)

I can imagine arming myself if I felt my neighbors or myself were in danger, but the idea of arming myself and my friends to drive to some other neighborhood or city to “protect” them is beyond anything that makes sense to me.

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by anonunivgrad on Friday November 13, 2020 @03:04PM (#25086783)

You really can’t imagine why vigilates’ sense of citizenship would extend beyond a neighborhood? And if we are assuming only selfish self interest, what happens in one neighborhood doesn’t stay there. I’m not saying their actions were right, but they’re not hard to understand.

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by dang on Friday November 13, 2020 @05:13PM (#25088154)

Would you please stop using HN for political and ideological flamewar? As you know, this is not what HN is supposed to be for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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Re:They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955) by NicoJuicy on Friday November 13, 2020 @12:13PM (#25084531)

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-po...

> But while the White House beat the drum for a crackdown on a leaderless movement on the left, law enforcement offices across the country were sharing detailed reports of far-right extremists seeking to attack the protesters and police during the country’s historic demonstrations, a trove of newly leaked documents reveals.

According to what I saw and interpreted, it was mostly right influence attempting to escalate the situation to "hurt the left".

Saying "fake spin" is not going to convince me otherwise. I'd prefer statistics though.

( Belgian, so not in the US)

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