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Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by martin_drapeau on Thursday November 12, 2020 @09:58AM (#25070530)
The M1 is a revolution and upcoming M2, M3 and so forth will be strong evolutions. Apple has a good track record of improving their chips year over year. Look at initial comments of the iPhone by the competition. They were all laughing. A decade later they are not.

With full control over the hardware and not relying on Intel for the processor, Apple is aiming to reproduce its iPhone success in PCs. They have everything going for them.

The future looks bleak for Intel and AMD. They are stuck evolving a 30 year-old architecture.

In fact, this is where Apple shines in terms of long-term strategy and execution. They are able to create a revolution with a new product/architecture (iPod, iPhone, iPad and now PC), then iterate to make it evolve over time. In doing so, they create new markets. I really feel like the M1 is an inflection point in the personal computers market.

Can't wait to see how Qualcomm and Nvidia (with the acquisition of ARM), will respond.

Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by johannes1234321 on Thursday November 12, 2020 @10:08AM (#25070646)
> With full control over the hardware and not relying on Intel for the processor, Apple is aiming to reproduce its iPhone success in PCs.

With Mac desktops and mobile devices getting similar in hardware the question is how much longer it will take, till you can plug your phone to a screen, keyboard and mouse and end up with a decent desktop for most use cases.

(There are tricky questions in that for instance whether one can plug it out for a break or something and how well such a thing would recover and a question whether one would be able to separate work and private life in such a world, but all should be solvable)

Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by n_kr on Thursday November 12, 2020 @10:24AM (#25070820)
It is possible to do that wirelessly with samsung dex already. I use it regularly, with an external mouse/keyboard for dex desktop on a TV, and I can use the phone normally. They supported linux on Dex for a while, but that is unsupported now. If Samsung brings a linux desktop with Miracast as an alternative to their own desktop, I might just switch full time to that.
Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by johannes1234321 on Friday November 13, 2020 @06:01AM (#25081079)
There is a difference between the MacOS environment and existing software vs. Android apps on a desktop-like environment. If Apple executes that well the transition could be mostly fluent, hardly noticed. With the transition to Apple Silicon right now being the most radical step in the process.
Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by compsciphd on Thursday November 12, 2020 @12:10PM (#25071928)
I built a system years ago that did this one better.

imagine your iphone (with its 128 or 256GB) of storage being the storage device of your computer. But not necessarily the CPU. When you're at a more powerful computer (say a laptop or mini), you can plug in and all your processes now run on faster computer. When you want to go remote, you migrate the processes to the portable device.

imagine being able to carry a single computer in your pocket like this betwen home and work and not having to carry a laptop.

http://systems.cs.columbia.edu/files/wpid-compsac2006-fordis...

Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by thebruce87m on Thursday November 12, 2020 @03:55PM (#25074862)
Samsung DeX already does that. I plugged a colleagues phone in to this screen and it was pretty cool: https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/electriq-eiq-15fhdpmt-15.6-t...

The screen has a USB A port, so a keyboard and mouse were useable with the dongle. It also has two USB-C ports allowing you to charge the phone through the screen. Touch screen was excellent too.

Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by TYPE_FASTER on Thursday November 12, 2020 @01:55PM (#25073405)
Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by miloignis on Thursday November 12, 2020 @10:10AM (#25070668)
I agree re Intel, but AMD's been doing some nice revolution/evolution type moves themselves with chiplet / Zen1/2/3. Architecture makes a difference, but I don't think it's as big of a factor as the internal innovations.

Dream setup, maybe AMD would hop on the RISC-V or OpenPOWER trains if it does end up looking like x86 is going the way of the dodo.

Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by stevievee on Thursday November 12, 2020 @10:16AM (#25070733)
The competitors will be fine unless Apple broadens away from SoCs (which isn't in line with Apple's walled garden approach, so I doubt it). There will always be a market where footprint and performance per watt are not issues. ie. I don't think the SoC vs CPU debate is settled.
Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by ksec on Friday November 13, 2020 @07:25AM (#25081458)
>There will always be a market where footprint and performance per watt are not issues.

Unfortunately even that is gone. If you need multiple cores, Pref Watt Scale up with each core adding to it. Unless you want absolute single thread performances. But even that Apple seems to be winning.

We have enter the age of TDP Computing.

Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by martin_drapeau on Thursday November 12, 2020 @10:32AM (#25070905)
I believe that market will shrink. SoC brings many advantages. I think it will overtake the majority of the market. Time will tell.
Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by gumby on Thursday November 12, 2020 @04:41PM (#25075463)
We thought that in the 1990s and a lot of VC money was spent on it. I'd like to see it happen for technical reasons, but still I wait to see it happen.
Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by altarius on Thursday November 12, 2020 @12:28PM (#25072164)
> They are stuck evolving a 30 year-old architecture.

ARM is older than you may think :) AFAIR the ARM instruction set was developed just a couple years after the Intel 8086, 1983 vs 1978. They're both nearing 40 years, but not that modern x86-64 or ARM64 are the same as those old ISAs.

Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by sliken on Thursday November 12, 2020 @06:49PM (#25076955)
True, but ARM, and apple in particular have been willing to discard compatibility with previous generations. I believe the M1 for instance is not 32 bit compatible. ARM also was willing to do some house cleaning when they designed the 64 bit architecture.

X86-64s on the other hand have compatibility not just to 32 bit, but also 16 bit. You can still boot dos 1.0 if you wanted.

Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by Zardoz84 on Friday November 13, 2020 @03:00PM (#25086719)
AMD not had license to make ARM cpus ? https://www.extremetech.com/computing/181867-amds-project-sk...

Form my point of view, they only need to replace the decoding units and, perhaps, the simd units of a Zen core to have an arm cpu.

Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by someday_somehow on Thursday November 12, 2020 @10:08AM (#25070642)
> The future looks bleak for Intel and AMD. They are stuck evolving a 30 year-old architecture.

ARM is over 30 years old as well.

Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by klelatti on Thursday November 12, 2020 @10:14AM (#25070714)
64 bit Arm is ten years old - if you dispense with 32 bit as Apple has then there is no legacy to carry forward.
Re:Apple's M1 processor spotlights Intel's chip challenges by martin_drapeau on Thursday November 12, 2020 @10:28AM (#25070870)
My point is that PC architecture still remains CPU + GPU + RAM mostly separate communicating over a large bus. The M1 combines this all in a SoC.