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Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by pavel_lishin on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @10:52PM (#25066234)
I sympathize with the author's points, but the headline is misleading - the only reason they posit to move to Venus is because Elon Musk wants to move to Mars.

Yes, Venus can be as habitable as Mars, but there's a big problem - like it or not, we have to extract resources from a place to live there, and there just isn't much we can extract from Venus. Extracting any resources from the surface means mining them from a hellscape, and then lifting them out of the gravity well into the clouds. (Though, to be fair, maybe we could just park a few asteroids in orbit and use those.)

Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by ncmncm on Thursday November 12, 2020 @01:54AM (#25067201)
The thing is, Mars is a dump.

Every detail is wrong, excepting only that there is dirt. When dirt is your best feature, you have to fall back on hype.

Venus and Mars are both extremely difficult environments, overwhelmingly moreso than Antarctica, the middle of the Takla Makan Desert, undersea, or in orbit, and also much harder to get to and from. No one has attempted living sustainably in any of those, and there is no proof they could if they tried.

So, only billionaires' public fantasies make them seem doable at all. Of the two, the cloud tops of Venus are somewhat less all-around hellish.

Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by dogma1138 on Thursday November 12, 2020 @06:54AM (#25068844)
Antarctica or the Takla Makan Desert don't give you any "advantage" over the existing habitable zones on earth - mars does and that advantage is that it's a different fucking planet.

Mars is also a stepping stone to the belt and the outer solar system and like it or not it's our next frontier.

Antarctica isn't going to yield you the same reaches as the belt will or heck even Mars because currently "polluting" Mars would actually be beneficial or at the least immaterial.

Humanity needs a new frontier to expand too, we tried making space our next frontier but it didn't caught on, maybe now it will if not it will be quite sad imo as it would leave the digital frontier as the only other frontier to expand into.

Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by ncmncm on Friday November 13, 2020 @09:42PM (#25089839)
We don't need a stepping stone to the Belt. The Belt is right there. Mars is at best a distraction, more likely a deep, deep hole.

Phobos could be useful.

Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by ASalazarMX on Thursday November 12, 2020 @02:10PM (#25073610)
Earth is also just wet dirt, what makes it fertile can be replicated on small-scale elsewhere.
Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by ncmncm on Thursday November 12, 2020 @03:48PM (#25074775)
Earth: Life, water, air, air pressure, warmth, gravity, sunshine, dirt.

Venus: Water vapor, air pressure, warmth, gravity, more sunshine.

Mars: Dirt.

Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by ASalazarMX on Thursday November 12, 2020 @06:58PM (#25077020)
Mars: dirt, water (likely as brine), air, air pressure, warmth, gravity, sunshine.

You just get a lot of dirt, and a lot less of the others, but brine can be purified, air can be compressed to get pressure, useful minerals can be mined from the soil and rocks, which unlike Venus, isn't under a scorching acid bath.

Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by ncmncm on Friday November 13, 2020 @02:55PM (#25086657)
I.e., just dirt. All else must be manufactured in small spaces, where possible at all.

Gravity is 1/3 normal, period. Sunshine is at 1/2 normal. Warmth is lacking. Air pressure is lethal.

When you have to lie to make it seem appealing, it is the lie that sticks, not the appeal.

Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by ASalazarMX on Friday November 13, 2020 @11:47PM (#25090371)
I was talking about small spaces all the time! Of course people wouldn't live in the Martin outdoors, but in the Martian underground.
Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by ncmncm on Monday November 16, 2020 @04:32PM (#25117226)
Most things can manufactured most places, with varying degrees of difficulty. A key factor is where you start. My lists were where you start, in each environment. Starting at Earth-normal pressure, Earth-normal temperature, and Earth-normal gravity is advantageous, vs starting with none of those things. Venus has them, Mars manifestly does not.

But even in ideal circumstances, manufacturing Earth-normal gravity on Mars will not be possible.

Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by ASalazarMX on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @02:58PM (#25128860)
While I tend to agree with the idea of colonizing a planet as similar as Earth as possible, I also think the barrenness of Mars actually simplifies logistics.

On Venus, you have to deal with high temperatures, acid rain, the bigger gravity well, and the ever-present danger of your floating city falling down. On Mars there's a lot less of everything, but ruling out a meteor, the things you have to deal with are gentler. Not even a dust storm would kill you if it caught you outside in your spacesuit, as it would feel like a breeze.

http://www.mars-one.com/faq/mission-to-mars/what-are-the-ris...

Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by ericbarrett on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @11:17PM (#25066377)
Venus also requires a lot more energy to lift mass from the surface since it’s nearly the same size as Earth. Its escape velocity is 10.3 km/s. Earth is 11.2 km/s and Mars is 5.0.
Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by tzs on Thursday November 12, 2020 @12:06AM (#25066649)
Could you use balloons to lift things from the surface to the cloud city level?
Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by pavel_lishin on Thursday November 12, 2020 @09:33AM (#25070269)
That's a good question, I have no idea! You'd have to pump it full of gas against a pressure of ~1300 PSI. Googling around, that's about equivalent to a kilometer under water.

Granted, it's not impossible - ocean oil rigs operate at those depths - but they're not operating at 500 degrees celcius.

Re:Screw the Mars hype. Here's why we should move to Venus by dwaltrip on Thursday November 12, 2020 @12:52AM (#25066895)
The heat at the surface (864 deg F) melts lead, so it doesn’t seem feasible.