I think there's room for very real discussion about the merits of China's positioning in the global space right now without doing the blanket demonization that we see so often.

Let's be more critical.

Do you mean we should be 'more critical' of the reports that China is operating genocidal concentration camps aimed at exterminating the Uyghur culture?

How many deaths has this genocide produced?

All the information on this comes from just a few American sources

That is a bald faced lie. The information comes from Uyghurs who managed to escape. The true scale of the genocide will likely not be known until/unless the CCP is dismantled and its members put on trial.

We should probably be more critical of attempts to use the Chinese atrocities against the Uyghur as a method to deflect attention from other actors' bad deeds.

> be more critical of attempts to use the Chinese atrocities against the Uyghur

It's shocking to try to put any positive spin on this.

Yes, the West has done bad. But this is state-sponsored genocide.

> It's shocking to try to put any positive spin on this.

I'm not.

I'm saying "What the Chinese have done to the Uyghur is bad" is a perfectly fine statement. I object to stuff like "stop whining about conditions in ICE detention when there's stuff like the Uyghur genocide happening". It's generally done in bad faith.

I agree.

I wasn't doing that, and I explicitly called that point out. I don't think the OP was trying to shift blame either.

I also think the incoming administration will do a lot to fix it. I don't see any change in China's Uyghur strategy without strong international posturing.

Yes, China is doing a bad thing (understatement of the century). When the world moved against apartheid in South Africa, trade with them stopped altogether. Apple phones, and a million other consumer products, are still coming over from China. Stopping that would be a good start.

But then we've got TikTok, which some American lefties are using to exercise their free speech. The ticket-buying campaign around Trump's rally in Tulsa really seemed to ignite Trump's ire. Is this about the atrocities, is it about national security, or is it about Trump's ego? I can get behind the first, I'm weary about the second, and cannot tolerate the third.

> Biden would be a fool to give the CCP even an inch

Biden should, as any sensible leader (and we are severely lacking those), ponder pros and cons, and move his pieces accordingly. This immovable attitude you suggest is nothing but extremism, and it doesn't end well.

Nevermind the genocide, 1984 surveillance, censorship, technology stealing, punishment of the relatives of expatriated citizens, etc. China will leapfrog the West and devour our knowledge industries.

If you like the salary you make today, then think about what happens when China's enormous supply of engineers working "996" gets access to the Western market. When their tech companies supplant our own.

We need to put in place immediate plans to shift manufacturing to Vietnam, India, Mexico, and Africa. We should duplicate the Belt initiative, but make partner nations our allies. Have them buy into our sphere of influence rather than be indebted to China forever.

We need to strengthen our allies and make this move to wean ourselves off of China together.

We have so many levers at our advantage. China has to import food and energy. Trade is still denominated in USD. And they've been horrible to other nations. It won't be hard to stop their rise and replace it with our own growth if we work together with our allies.

Edit: I realize there's a huge international audience here, but imagine saying these things in Shanghai. Or compare saying bad things about Xi and Trump. The West has to win. If China were free and democratic, I'd change my attitude in a second and maybe even consider moving there.

I also realize the West has a whole host of problems of its own: racial inequality, widening economic prosperity gap, etc. But I do believe our democratic model is vastly superior to one that criminalizes thought.

Edit: I'm sitting at -2 now, but upvotes keep pushing me back up. I expect once this falls off the front page that I'll wind up with a positive score. This always happens with my negative comments on China. No detractions or conversation, only downvotes. I think this is due to the diverse international audience. I really wish someone with the opposite perspective would chime in.

One issue is that your comment sounds a bit hyperbolic. For example, China criminalizes thought? It certainly does not criminalize thought as such.

About 'working together with our allies'... Some will argue the 'West' has developed a somewhat abusive relationship with a lot of the world over the last two hundred years. It's not surprising some would look favourably to a competitor, if only to take advantage of that competition to make a better deal for themselves.

Finally, if other parts of the world develop a more advanced IT industry instead of China, how does that preserve Western developers salaries? Are the Chinese uniquely inclined to work long hours for low salaries? Or are you implying that the 'West' would need to prevent nations under 'our sphere of influence' to develop an IT industry so developers in the 'West' can continue to receive their current salaries?

No it’s called policy making. You show the CCP an inch and they’ll take two.

The way to combat the CCP is to avoid even giving an inch. It worked in the Cold War and will work today.

> You show the CCP an inch and they’ll take two.

Every country with the clout to do that does it, and the other countries know it. You speak of the CCP like they're evil bastards waiting to leap at your throat, but in reality USA and China have a lot in common, at least in world politics.

Some Latin American countries tried to avoid giving even an inch to USA, and it didn't end well. China has done the same in Asia. USA-China rivalry is not about good and bad, it's more akin to thugs invading each other's turfs.

I'm sorry, are you under the impression we refused to work with or compromise with China throughout the cold war?

I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but I'm almost certain he is saying how it worked with the Soviet Union.

That wouldn’t be true either. I’m no historian but things like the SALT treaties would surely be examples of working with the USSR (and giving them “an inch” in the process).

I'm guessing the parent was referring to America and the USSR during the cold war and saying America needs to take the same stance against China as they did against the USSR.