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Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by ineedasername on Saturday November 07, 2020 @04:33PM (#25019674)
The problem was that more progressive policies were divisive even within the party, and out of the more moderate candidates running Biden has the most name recognition and probably the most "we know we're going to get".

If by "someone better" you mean more progressive, then you're exactly right: you need to convince a portion of the moderate majority to be more progressive. That is a difficult & long term process.

Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by smhost on Saturday November 07, 2020 @05:04PM (#25020000)
> more progressive policies were divisive even within the party

divisive within the Party, but not among the constituency.

Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by ineedasername on Saturday November 07, 2020 @05:31PM (#25020253)
I'm not sure who you are referring to when you say constituency. What is your definition of that term? Mine is that all people are part of the constituency: A person elected president is responsible for leading everyone; A person elected to the House or Senate is responsible for representing everyone in their district/state, not just their party. My definition of "party" are all of the people registered as Democrats.

I think you're right that some aspects of more progressive policies are not divisive for the country: I think most people would agree that everyone should have healthcare. I think most people would agree that everyone should have access to education. I'm not sure I even look at those sorts of things as "progressive". The progressive part is how those things are structured and how they are paid for.

As I think about it further, I think there's also a possibility that a majority of Democrats do believe in progressive policies on things like this, but when selecting a candidate they opted for one someone not as progressive because they didn't think the progressive one had as much chance of getting elected. Their calculation, perhaps a bit cynical, was that the less progressive person that gets elected can do more than the very progressive candidate that loses.

Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by smhost on Saturday November 07, 2020 @06:19PM (#25020769)
democratic voters tragically did respond to the fearmongering of establishment propagandists, but the problem for them isn't in the electoral sphere. it's on the ground where people are facing mass evictions, a mental health and suicide epidemic, poor communities facing a "dark winter", and so on. the moderate wing of the democratic party choosing not to protect vulnerable communities won't make these problems go away.
Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by ineedasername on Saturday November 07, 2020 @06:29PM (#25020863)
Weren't the Democrats trying to craft a new aid package for the "dark winter"? I thought they were simply blocked by the Whitehouse/Senate who probably didn't see cooperation on this as beneficial to their election prospects... and a Whitehouse that couldn't seem to make up its mind on the issue.

I agree establishment leadership is skeptical of more progressive policies, probably not for philosophical reasons but for a more cynical calculations that support isn't good for their political prospects.

Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by smhost on Saturday November 07, 2020 @06:37PM (#25020941)
you're talking about the covid relief package that pelosi refused to pass because it would've helped trump's chances at reelection.
Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by ineedasername on Saturday November 07, 2020 @06:54PM (#25021097)
I'm not sure that package would have done very much. I suppose it would have been better than nothing though, and another one could have been passed after the election. You're probably right that Pelosi calculated that a compromise wasn't in her interest, but I'm also not sure if it was in the Republican's interest: I think both sides would claim victory and it would have come down to whoever was able to spin it the most to their benefit.

Unfortunately, now that the election is over I also don't think it will be easy to get anything done. The GOP is not going to want to give Democrats an early "win", and will likely pivot to their "but the deficit!" talking points now that they're out of office. I think things will need to get much much worse before a compromise is possible.

Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by klipt on Saturday November 07, 2020 @05:08PM (#25020034)
"more progressive policies" is a broad term, could mean anything from "Medicare for All" to "Abolish the Police", and some of these are much more divisive than others.
Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by smhost on Saturday November 07, 2020 @06:00PM (#25020547)
"abolish the police" isn't a policy
Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by klipt on Saturday November 07, 2020 @06:17PM (#25020744)
Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by smhost on Saturday November 07, 2020 @06:22PM (#25020785)
if you read past the headline, the actual policy it proposes is to reduce the number of police and cut the budget.
Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by klipt on Saturday November 07, 2020 @06:35PM (#25020905)
If you read further the author says

"I’ve been advocating the abolition of the police for years"

"We don’t want to just close police departments"

"People like me who want to abolish prisons and police"

Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by smhost on Saturday November 07, 2020 @06:43PM (#25020999)
i mean again, advocating for abolition isn't a policy proposal.

take for example angela davis, the most prominent prison abolitionist today. she says in this interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3q_qV5mHg0) that there currently isn't a model of a prison-free society, only hints here and there.

Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by klipt on Saturday November 07, 2020 @07:11PM (#25021236)
Okay, call "abolish the police" a long-term goal instead of an immediate policy. It (and its shorter term policies like "abolish half the police by defunding them") are still very divisive among the electorate.
Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by smhost on Saturday November 07, 2020 @07:41PM (#25021521)
you can't abolish half of a thing. abolishing half of slavery still leaves you with slavery. you're confused about some basic terms here.

and if you're using a broad enough notion of divisiveness, then anything is divisive, including tan suits and dijon mustard. so divisiveness as you're using the term is not a property of the relation between the constituency and the political object (policy/slogan/etc.), but it's instead a tool that social engineers can use to create antagonism between populations.

for example, abortion appears to be an extremely divisive issue because of the way the issue has been socially engineered, but if you look at the data, a large majority of americans agree on the vast majority of abortion cases. it's the edge cases and disagreements on the rationale for/against abortion that are used to create the appareance of divisiveness.

Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by klipt on Sunday November 08, 2020 @11:15AM (#25026680)
> you can't abolish half of a thing. abolishing half of slavery still leaves you with slavery

Then I guess the abolitionists failed because slavery still exists.

Re:Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided ... by smhost on Sunday November 08, 2020 @01:36PM (#25027768)
You're right, abolition of slavery won't be achieved until settler colonial slave states like the united states are dismantled and replaced with a fair society. However, the abolitionists did accomplished many great notable things, such as killing a bunch of racist southerners.