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Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by varispeed on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @08:26AM (#24988776)
Wouldn't that tell any spy device / software that the subject has switched off the means he or she can be surveiled by? I cannot see how this could help with anything. They should rather do a physical switch that would 0 the data lines from these devices, so that camera or the microphone would be seen as working, but not sending any signal. Even better if you could pre-program some kind of ambience sound and pre-recorded cam video, so that once you turn it off, the perpetrator will think that they are still getting something.
Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by crote on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @08:37AM (#24988883)
Why would you care about fooling surveillance? The goal is to prevent a potential adversary from getting any video/audio footage, them being aware of you actively blocking any attempts is not really relevant.

Besides, the vast majority of users will not be under active attack. Having an on-screen popup when you try to use the webcam telling you that it has been hardware-disabled is quite a must-have. If you don't have something like this, you'll get a lot of support calls which boil down to "you accidentally pressed the kill switch, press it again to re-enable".

Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by jakobdabo on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @10:07AM (#24989660)
> Why would you care about fooling surveillance?

For example, when you are "required" [1] to run surveillance software on your computer.

[1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7wxvd/students-are-rebellin...

Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by fouric on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @01:01PM (#24991379)
...then you just cover the camera and/or mic with a physical cover, such a piece of tape.
Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by boogies on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @04:14PM (#24993131)
> and/or mic

How well would tape work on that?

Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by Vrondi on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @04:50PM (#24993395)
These exam proctoring softwares are only required to be run during the time you are actively taking an exam. The rest of the time, there would be zero issue for a student with hardware disabled camera and microphone.
Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by matheusmoreira on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @05:24PM (#24993673)
The invasive proprietary software used to prevent cheating cannot be trusted to work only when the students want it work. Its purpose can and will be twisted to fit the agendas of whoever owns the software. It probably introduces several security vulnerabilities into the system just by being installed.
Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by jackvalentine on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @05:36PM (#24993772)
It's a Chrome extension.
Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by duskwuff on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @02:53PM (#24992445)
> If you don't have something like this, you'll get a lot of support calls which boil down to "you accidentally pressed the kill switch, press it again to re-enable".

Yep. This was an extremely common issue in the mid-2000s, when laptops started integrating wireless hardware with hard power switches, often on the side of the laptop where they could easily be toggled by accident.

Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by varispeed on Thursday November 05, 2020 @04:18AM (#24996754)
But was it a "fault" of the switch itself or lack of meaningful feedback that the switch was engaged? It seems like they have not implemented it properly and then say it wasn't a good idea, without really giving it a chance.
Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by antoinealb on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @08:32AM (#24988822)
It might be for usability reasons: having your video conferencing application tell you "Your webcam appears to be disabled by the privacy switch, is that intentional?" probably saves a lot of time in tech support calls.
Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by lultimouomo on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @08:44AM (#24988941)
Also, having your video conferencing application send some prerecorded audio and video data to your colleagues because you inadvertently turned the kill switch would not be a highly desirable outcome.
Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by marcinzm on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @10:14AM (#24989711)
Unless you record infinite video and sound it's pretty easy to check if the video is a loop. Even static video of an empty room would have variations over time while a recording would be identical. Even auto-generated audio and noise would have a pattern which can be matched on. And if an attacker has control over your machine they can trivially correlate it with other activity to detect fake input.

It's basically a false sense of security which is generally worse than doing nothing.

Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by weehoo on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @11:26AM (#24990423)
If you can pattern match all auto generated audio you can prove there’s no one way functions and that cryptographic hash functions don’t exist.

Detecting the pattern in a prng stream is equivalent to finding its Kolmogorov complexity. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity#Chaiti...

Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by marcinzm on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @12:05PM (#24990839)
You're not pattern matching all auto-generated audio. You are pattern matching the audio generated by a specific algorithm. An attacker who has access to your microphone will know which laptop you have and what hardware it has.

This assumes an attacker is targeting you specifically since otherwise this is all moot (a broad attack could care less as to why your microphone is off).

Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by kelnos on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @04:53PM (#24993415)
You wouldn't be using a PRNG for this, because what would be the point? The idea would be to generate some plausible-sounding audio, not garbage that a listener would obviously know isn't real.

Really, though, in general there's just no point to this altogether; just cutting power/data to the mic is fine. There's no need to attempt to fool someone with fake audio, outside of some very edge-case scenarios that I'm sure Dell (rightly) does not care about.

Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by coldtea on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @09:55AM (#24989558)
>Wouldn't that tell any spy device / software that the subject has switched off the means he or she can be surveiled by?

And the spy device/software knowing the user has "switched off the means" vs "they are broken" is important because?

Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by tw04 on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @08:43AM (#24988928)
>They should rather do a physical switch that would 0 the data lines from these devices,

What exactly do you expect that to accomplish. Anyone actively targeting you getting literally NO SOUND OR VIDEO is going to know that you've flipped the switch just the same.

Even the quietest apartment has HVAC that will be picked up. If they're recording for hours they're going to hear people walking by. The camera itself will still provide an image, even if it's black, that looks different than no signal at all.

Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by varispeed on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @09:04AM (#24989112)
That's why the idea of having some pre-recorded stuff on tap, but sending no signal could waste some of the perpetrators resources, which I think is something nicer to have than letting them know it is switched off.
Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by tw04 on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @10:06AM (#24989647)
Sorry but if you're going to those lengths you should be buying a laptop without a camera or mic. Do video calls from your phone and put it in a soundproof/wireless transmission proof box.

If a nation state is able to get to your laptop they're going to figure out pretty quickly that you're "feeding something pre-recorded" into the mic and camera every time you have a meeting. Ignoring the insane effort you'd have to put out to feed that in and make it even semi-believable. For starters they are presumably tracking who you're meeting with - are you going to have a meeting before your meeting to pre-record? Hope they don't figure out that you're saying the exact same thing in two different meetings? Somehow have root on your laptop but aren't bright enough to figure out you're feeding data from a local file into your mic and camera?

Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by varispeed on Thursday November 05, 2020 @04:20AM (#24996763)
Thank you! Great answer
Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by criddell on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @09:03AM (#24989106)
I believe the switches are there for the user as a simple way of activating or deactivating the microphone and camera and for them to know (via LEDs) the current state.

If you have a spy device connected to your computer or have malware running, you are very screwed in a million different ways already. Limiting knowledge of hardware state to malware doesn't buy you much.

Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by Vrondi on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @04:48PM (#24993381)
If it is switched off, then you cannot be surveiled by it. Mission accomplished.
Re:Dell Adding Hardware Privacy Driver for Linux by rainingcatndogs on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @08:47AM (#24988972)
I belive you can blacklist that driver if needed.