News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by lostlogin on Friday October 30, 2020 @10:37PM (#24948708)
> Regardless how expensive it get, it won't burn tons of fossil fuels.

Maybe it won’t be a lot once built, but fuel extraction and processing are energy intensive. Also, 10 years of construction and the vast quantity of steel and concrete are going to burn one hell of a lot of fossil fuel.

It would be interesting to compare the lifetime fossil fuel usage of all power generators, including construction and disposal (and waste storage).

Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by natmaka on Friday October 30, 2020 @11:18PM (#24948895)
Nuclear and offshore wind are equivalent (median: 12 gCO2eq/kWh)

Source: IPCC, 2014

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-cycle_greenhouse_gas_emis...

Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by tonyedgecombe on Saturday October 31, 2020 @02:28AM (#24949538)
Although offshore has continued to get cheaper and nuclear only seems to be getting more expensive since then.
Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by nikitaga on Saturday October 31, 2020 @03:54AM (#24949792)
Getting cheaper doesn't mean requiring less CO2 emissions. GP's proposal would let the market decide what makes financial sense, given the constraints.
Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by Udik on Saturday October 31, 2020 @07:49AM (#24950677)
> offshore has continued to get cheaper

What is the cost of an offshore generation plant that can produce power with the same reliability of a nuclear one? This needs to get into the equation.

Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by pfdietz on Saturday October 31, 2020 @08:10AM (#24950758)
Probably the 100% renewable system will end up cheaper than one that includes nuclear. This requires prediction of where costs will be going, but the worldwide the market seems to be betting on that outcome, not nuclear, which only gets built when governments heavily tilt the scales.

https://model.energy/

Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by Udik on Saturday October 31, 2020 @09:02AM (#24951090)
The cost of wind turbines has little to do with the cost of ensuring that the power plant will provide a set amount of 100% renewable energy all the time. Because when the wind is not blowing the plant has either to provide energy from a storage system or source it somewhere else, again with 100% reliability.
Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by pfdietz on Saturday October 31, 2020 @09:25AM (#24951279)
You didn't look at that link, did you? It has models using predicted costs for wind, solar, nuclear, batteries, and hydrogen storage, and computes the minimum cost system to produce reliable baseload power using real historical weather data (at 5 minute intervals). You can alter the assumptions and see what the costs optimize to. Nuclear is "Dispatchable 2" in the advanced settings.
Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by Udik on Saturday October 31, 2020 @10:18AM (#24951678)
No, I didn't look at the link- you could have at least described what it contained.

I gave it a quick look, but frankly it would take me a lot of time to check if the model and assumptions make sense (it also seems to reply "job failed" whenever it doesn't have a cached answer). But I think real costs can be estimated only from working plants. Do we have, now, renewable energy plants that are capable of delivering a constant amount of energy by storing the excess production? How many have been built around the world? Why aren't we building more if they're so cheap?

Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by pfdietz on Saturday October 31, 2020 @05:33PM (#24955369)
> Do we have, now, renewable energy plants that are capable of delivering a constant amount of energy by storing the excess production?

As long as we are burning fossil fuels (and in particular natural gas) it doesn't make much sense to build such things, even if we could. The natural gas provides pre-stored energy.

Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by lostlogin on Saturday October 31, 2020 @02:05PM (#24953749)
> Do we have, now, renewable energy plants that are capable of delivering a constant amount of energy by storing the excess production?

They have plenty of drawbacks, but hydro meets this. The storage occurs pre production though.

Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by korantu on Friday October 30, 2020 @11:07PM (#24948842)
Fair comparison here is overall energy invested for energy obtained. For nuclear, as it is much denser energy-wise then anything else, you need to do the least amount of digging per MW capacity / let alone overall produced MWh. Nuclear is orders of magnitude better than other low-co2 options. For example for solar it is about 6, versus 75 for nuclear. [1]

Also instructive to keep in mind just how energy dense nuclear fuel is. [2]

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2015/02/11/eroi-a-to...

[2] https://xkcd.com/1162/

Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by Reason077 on Saturday October 31, 2020 @06:22AM (#24950252)
> ”Fair comparison here is overall energy invested for energy obtained.”

We think of “energy invested” as having an environmental cost, and of course that’s true when it comes from polluting fossil sources.

But as grids get cleaner, and transport vehicles and construction equipment are electrified, this is no longer such a concern. Eventually we’re just using clean energy to build more clean energy - a virtuous cycle!

New low-carbon concrete formulas and steel production technology are also needed, of course, since these are a major source of emissions whether for a nuclear plant or wind farm.

Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by jnxx on Saturday October 31, 2020 @01:19PM (#24953260)
> Nuclear is orders of magnitude better than other low-co2 options.

Then, why is it not economically viable when fairly competing with solar and wind energy? Because it requires much more subsidies and nuclear developers cannot even bear the financial risks of their projects, as one would expect from a economically viable technology.

Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by stinos on Saturday October 31, 2020 @04:06AM (#24949832)
Nuclear is orders of magnitude better than other low-co2 options

The sibling post seems to indicate otherwise though and mentions they're about the same? Any idea where that difference in numbers come from?

Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by korantu on Saturday October 31, 2020 @04:20AM (#24949867)
I was specifically referring to energy spent to build and operate / energy actually generated over lifetime, so called EROI. My post refers to the sources of the info
Re:New nuclear plant at Sizewell set for green light by pfdietz on Saturday October 31, 2020 @08:11AM (#24950765)
Nuclear is not orders of magnitude better in EROI, so I don't know what you think you were claiming.