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Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by throwaway9980 on Sunday October 25, 2020 @07:48PM (#24891271)
Especially good if the converted office space also provides a good work from home environment. Everyone is working from home and those that can are scrambling to expand their houses to suit a new lifestyle.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by bergstromm466 on Monday October 26, 2020 @04:53AM (#24894050)
> Especially good if the converted office space also provides a good work from home environment.

Or... you know... just give homeless people housing?

Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by adrianN on Monday October 26, 2020 @05:07AM (#24894136)
Is there data supporting the conclusion that lack of housing is what causes homelessness? I always thought that it was more of a failure of the social safety net.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Monday October 26, 2020 @07:54AM (#24895124)
I don't know about that, however there is data that shows that providing homes to the homeless is a net win for society: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by iso1210 on Monday October 26, 2020 @07:41AM (#24895041)
There seems to be milage in the idea that if you give someone a home you reduce homelessness

https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/how-to-fix-homelessness-give-...

Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by throwaway3699 on Monday October 26, 2020 @06:04AM (#24894450)
Lack of jobs and crushing taxes more like. Social safety nets aren't all they're cracked up to be, and leaves people trapped in that system forever.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by StavrosK on Monday October 26, 2020 @06:28AM (#24894583)
Really? Living in a country with a safety net, it looks pretty damn positive to me, you get unemployment checks while you're unemployed which makes it much easier to take your time to find a good next job.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by ericmay on Monday October 26, 2020 @07:44AM (#24895055)
The United States has unemployment benefits [1].

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits_in_the_U...

Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by tabob on Monday October 26, 2020 @07:57AM (#24895144)
Unemployment varies greatly state by state and rarely keeps up with the reality of the cost of living.

On top of this, it only applies if you lose your job due to "lay-offs". I've been laid off four times in my life, all 3 times the companies claimed they were not lay-offs and fought my claim. 2 times I was denied.

The third time I received unemployment benefits for 5 months. I received $4,000 in benefits then my former employer won an appeal, and my claim was deemed "fraud". I had to pay $8,500 back ($4,000 + $4,500 in "fraud fees").

If you are fired for "cause", "screw you, have a nice day".

8 months ago 10% of my company's engineering department (screw you, cloud passage) was fired "for cause" and replaced with cheap Belarusian contractors. This time I didn't even bother for unemployment, I didn't want to risk having to pay it back + 100% fines. I also do not get covid stimulus, and have had to sell my 401k to keep from being homeless.

America has no social net whatsoever. I do not qualify for unemployment, food stamps, or anything else even though I have been working my ass off and paying taxes for 25 years.

Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by GVRV on Monday October 26, 2020 @08:50AM (#24895575)
This is infuriating :( Hope you weather the storm and end up in a better spot soon.

But, this is one of my concerns too. I equate money with time and if, as a law-abiding citizen, I work diligently for a couple of decades and pay my taxes, when circumstances change – I should be assured some sort of a safety net. Otherwise, what is the point of wasting time working to pay taxes? Is this the hard reality that we cannot rely on governments taking care of us and need to come up with more individualistic backup plans in such circumstances? Does paying all of your taxes and being a model law-abiding citizen make you a sucker?

Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by ModernMech on Monday October 26, 2020 @08:46AM (#24895542)
Not to mention you have to make enough money to qualify for unemployment. My wife was once denied because in the window of time they use to calculate unemployment her pay was too low. They told her that in order to qualify for unemployment, she had to get a job and make more money, and then lose that job and reapply.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by tabob on Tuesday October 27, 2020 @09:20AM (#24907110)
Also, when it comes to the stimulus programs, if you made too much $$ then you don't qualify. Even if I had qualified for unemployment, I wouldn't have qualified for the extra $300/week and the $1200 stimulus plans.

The only thing really keeping us afloat is we fled the USA and move to my wife's town where she owns a home and there's a low cost of living. Luckily I was raised with the philosophy that if I cannot afford to buy a thing in cash, I cannot afford to buy that thing, so I have never had any debt.

Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by StavrosK on Monday October 26, 2020 @07:51AM (#24895105)
Yes, but I have a feeling that's what the GP refers to when they say "trapped forever". I don't feel like our system traps you at all, so I was wondering why the GP feels that people get trapped.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by olalonde on Monday October 26, 2020 @07:55AM (#24895134)
They're probably referring to the "welfare trap"[0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_trap

Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by StavrosK on Monday October 26, 2020 @07:57AM (#24895143)
Ahh, I see, thank you, that makes sense.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by ericmay on Monday October 26, 2020 @07:54AM (#24895123)
Sorry, I misunderstood the context. I thought you were from outside the United States as the origination of your comment.My fault!
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by StavrosK on Monday October 26, 2020 @07:56AM (#24895140)
No sorry, I confused you even more. I am from outside the US, I think my country's system doesn't trap you, so I was wondering why the US one does.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by ericmay on Monday October 26, 2020 @08:23AM (#24895343)
Haha no worries! I have not been on unemployment, so I'm afraid I can't comment on that. As someone else mentioned it does vary a bit state by state, so there could be something there.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by meerita on Monday October 26, 2020 @08:19AM (#24895304)
But that doesn't happen as you say. What people do is just take 2 year sabatical at the expenses of all the taxes while they go Thailand, etc. That is what happens with most of the unemployment checks.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by adrianN on Monday October 26, 2020 @08:24AM (#24895348)
In Germany people don't take two year sabbaticals while on welfare. Where do you think that happens?
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by meerita on Monday October 26, 2020 @09:00AM (#24895670)
In Spain is very common to take 2 year sabatical while enjoying the welfare. Most of them go away and sign online through proxies or use family members to do that.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by wokkel on Monday October 26, 2020 @08:28AM (#24895390)
I live in what, judging by your comment, is a socialist country, and have never seen that happen. Without some sources this is Just FUD.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by adrianN on Monday October 26, 2020 @06:12AM (#24894490)
Being trapped in a social safety net is more desirable than being trapped under a bridge.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by meerita on Monday October 26, 2020 @08:17AM (#24895288)
I want a free house too.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by bergstromm466 on Monday October 26, 2020 @11:45AM (#24897420)
> I want a free house too.

Well yes, for many of the young working class - rent is eating up over 2/3rd of their paychecks.

We are being scammed by the Bourgeoisie with inherited wealth.

This explains our situation well imo:

-

"So where did our land system come from?

Weirdly enough, the land system that we have today has its origins in a problem specific to medieval kings, which is ‘how do I fund military campaigns and defence, without paying to keep a standing army?’

And it was William the Conqueror who perfected the answer. It was a piece of paper. And on that piece of paper was basically an agreement between the Crown and a noble, saying ‘if you provide men for military campaigns when I ask, in exchange I will grant you a monopoly over your own private fiefdom, where you can levy as high taxes as people can bear to pay’.

So effectively — rent is the original tax, paid via lords to the King.

In fact the word ‘feudal’ derives from the latin word feudalis — for ‘fee’. In other words, rent. So the whole system of government by which the Normans ruled over the Anglo Saxons was based on rent.

If you’re a King, there’s only really three groups of people you’re scared of: other kings, your family, and your nobles. So over time landowners managed to engineer a set of concessions, whereby increasingly taxes were levied directly on people and business, leaving them (the lords) as the owners of a monopoly right to extract privatised land tax.

So what you’re left with is a set of power relations in society: an enforced system of servitude and control. As the economist Henry George pointed out, it is essentially a diluted version of slavery.

“Ownership of land always gives ownership of people… Place one hundred people on an island from which there is no escape. Make one of them the absolute owner of the others — or the absolute owner of the soil. It will make no difference — either to owner or to the others — which one you choose. Either way, one individual will be the absolute master of the other ninety-nine.”

Fast forward a few hundred years, to post-civil-war America and that’s exactly what played out. The plantation owners could no longer own slaves, so what they said is ‘Ok, I’ll pay you, say, $2 dollars a day’ — but by the way, I own the land, and the rent is… $2 a day.’’. Which, incidentally, led to the invention of a clever invention called a ‘chattel house’ which was a kind of kit house that gave families of plantation workers the ability to relocate to try to escape exploitative landlords."

Fast forward again to today, and land is still the fundamental mechanism of racial inequity. To be blunt, all across the UK and the US, there are tenants with black and brown skin paying rent to landlords and mortgage lenders with white skin. Or commuting for hours. Or both.

I imagine all of you have seen the speech made a couple of weeks ago by a young American writer called Kimberly Jones — if you haven’t, do — it’s absolutely the most eloquent piece of public speaking I’ve seen in a long time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llci8MVh8J4). In it she uses this incredible image of getting white people to imagine what it feels like to play “four hundred rounds of Monopoly” with the game rigged against you, enforced by violence. There’s an interesting backstory here, that you may know, which is that the game of monopoly was first invented by a woman called Elizabeth Magie — and originally called ‘The Landlords Game’ and it was created so that… basically one day someone could make exactly the speech that Kimberly Jones just did.

So, broadly speaking — and I’m simplifying here — there were two positions in this power diagram. Tenant and landlord.

And over time that piece of paper became a tradable asset, as well as an inheritable one: so you can literally buy the right to extract taxes from people. And it’s amazing to me that we don’t find that more weird than we do — it’s right there hidden in plain sight in the language we use: landlord.

But such an extreme overclass/underclass diagram is politically hard to sustain. So, over time we saw the slow emergence of a middle position, which is for those who could get together just enough money to buy their own freedom from rent. Again, that’s why we have the word ‘Freehold’; it’s not free as in ‘no cost’ it’s free as in, ‘liberty’."

Source: https://medium.com/@AlastairParvin/a-new-land-contract-684c3...

+

"There are many kinds of monopoly, from utilities to pharmaceutical patents, but the greatest – the ‘mother of all monopolies’ as Churchill described it – is land. Land rents are a weird leftover of the medieval feudal system: a privatised location tax that is suffocating every Westernised economy today."

"It is worth remembering that there is no political argument —Left, Liberal or Right — that even attempts to justify economic rent-seeking on the basis of principle. You will not find one in any book. Adam Smith was against it, Karl Marx was against it, Keynes was against it, Friedman was against it. Even Ayn Rand was against it. Economic rent-seeking survives only in the dark, by obfuscation, distraction, corruption and perverse incentives. It endures only because it has not been part our political language for the last century, and in the tussle of everyday life, we are all susceptible to quietly putting our own short-term convenience ahead of our principles if we can get away with it (then justifying it to ourselves later)."

Source: https://medium.com/@AlastairParvin/progress-again-6f6213bdcd...

Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by underwater on Monday October 26, 2020 @04:19PM (#24900878)
Buying property to rent doesn't seem like a good way to make money every time I've run the numbers. The only way it makes sense is if capital gains ratchets up the property prices significantly.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by bcrl on Tuesday October 27, 2020 @09:52PM (#24914162)
Multi-Dwelling-Units. I'd never buy a single unit property to rent, as there's just too much risk tied up in a single tenant, but I'm very happy with my mixed 3 residential + commercial space in a small town.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by bergstromm466 on Monday October 26, 2020 @07:57PM (#24903024)
> Buying property to rent doesn't seem like a good way to make money

Landlordism is one of the oldest games. It is true that you do need quite a bit of capital in order to 'start'. This is the reason why many big corporations like Blackstone have gotten into the game. In the UK, landlordism is a common way to 'becoming a millionaire'.

After the '08 financial crash, the UK government even pledged to underwrite mortgages, making the game of starting a Monopoly-like property empire in the UK risk free for elites. Sheikh Khalifa is a big fan. [1]

> The only way it makes sense is if capital gains ratchets up the property prices significantly.

That's exactly what corporates do. It's the slow corporate fininancialization of the housing market [2].

"Between 2011 and 2017, some of the world’s largest private-equity groups and hedge funds, as well as other large investors, spent a combined $36 billion on more than 200,000 homes in ailing markets across the country. In one Atlanta zip code, they bought almost 90 percent of the 7,500 homes sold between January 2011 and June 2012; today, institutional investors own at least one in five single-family rentals in some parts of the metro area" [3]

+

"Scaling up portfolios consisting of thousands or tens of thousands of rental homes has made it possible for Wall Street firms to roll out financial instruments suited to “a rentership society”. Securitisation allows big investors to borrow against the value of the properties, to buy more properties and pay off old debt, and acts as a loan that tenants pay back with their rent checks.

Wall Street is no stranger to the housing business in America. But their involvement as landlords of single-family homes is new, and so are the financial instruments they have developed." [4]

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2020/oct/...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2019/sep/10/push-fi...

[3] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/02/singl...

[4] https://theconversation.com/wall-street-landlords-are-chasin...

Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by three14 on Wednesday October 28, 2020 @01:20AM (#24915501)
On the one hand, this is a fascinating perspective. On the other it's clearly historically incorrect. The Bible already talks about land ownership, and at least by the time of the Talmud they had rental and sharecropping, long before feudalism.
Re:Nearly 12M Square Feet of Vacant Office Space in S.F by bergstromm466 on Saturday October 31, 2020 @10:36AM (#24951813)
> The Bible

Ah yes, a most trustworthy source. A book written by many authors and used by monarchs to subdue their populations.

I am not saying this post is factually/historically correct.