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Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by osobo on Sunday October 25, 2020 @02:59AM (#24884352)
You are treating VR like it's another browser. It's not. With cameras in every direction scanning and parsing your environment, data on your physical fitness and the always-on nature of the Quest 2 it is far more invasive than even Google Home speakers are. You offer a whole new set of very personal data to a company that has proven itself to mine it extensively for its own gain.
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by shajznnckfke on Sunday October 25, 2020 @03:40AM (#24884524)
Are you saying FB is trying to target ads based on 3D mapping of homes/bodies while the headset is lying around unused? Or what exactly is the theory here?
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by osobo on Sunday October 25, 2020 @04:40AM (#24884762)
If you own an Oculus, you know how eery the boundary mapping is. Before they switched it off, you'd be able to see your boundary from outside its fencing. Some users report being able to see the boundary from a different room. So not only does the headset map your environment inside the boundary, it actually maps and parses the rest as well. It doesn't have GPS so it wouldn't know how otherwise to determine your position relative to the boundary. This means Oculus maps every space it is in, including the objects in it. Really, this tells FB far more about your life and general affluence than any type of browsing behavior ever could.

Same goes for fitness tracking. Inside actual fitness games but in other VR titles as well. Again, this generates a ton of very personal data that, combined with other databases, unlocks a ton of value for advertisers.

This is why FB is so adamant about using FB profiles, even banning users if they make a guest account: For all this data to be really valuable, you need to be able to have it down to an individual resolution (that is: You know all the data is generated by a single individual, so you can combine it).

All of this, combined with existing data-generation, is a whole new level of invasion of privacy.

Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by vrperson on Sunday October 25, 2020 @04:53AM (#24884816)
So far, targeted ads don't really seem to work that well (studies have found). I don't think getting the size of my rooms will be that much of an improvement. They can infer maybe how much money I have, but they can probably already guess that from my address and my credit card company also knows. It's not even clear that the data about my rooms is transferred to Facebook.

I don't think making better targeted ads is the play here. I think they want to dominate social networking, and they think a lot of social networking will take place in VR in the future.

Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by RhodoYolo on Thursday October 29, 2020 @01:05PM (#24932652)
This is complete nonsense and doesn't pass the face-value check. Why would all the tech companies hire thousands of engineers to fine tune an algorithmn that was proven to be worse?
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by osobo on Sunday October 25, 2020 @05:11AM (#24884894)
Can you link me one of those studies? Assuming it's about modern hyper-targeted social media content based advertising, not last decade's old-school banners.
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by KaiserPro on Sunday October 25, 2020 @02:14PM (#24888511)
room shape isn't exactly a killer segmentation for advertising.

The content inside a room would be. But it would costa shittonne in GPU time to do that reliably, so it would cost a boatload.

Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by KaiserPro on Sunday October 25, 2020 @01:37PM (#24888157)
> Some users report being able to see the boundary from a different room.

This is relocalisation. Two things to note here

1) Facebook don't have enough GPUs to do this properly at scale.

2) For that kind of thing to work it needs either a GPS prior, or much more robust SLAM. the oculus isft doesn't have enough CPU/GPU to make robust multi-room maps (with big occlusions that is)

> This is why FB is so adamant about using FB profiles, even banning users if they make a guest account:

Its far more mundane than that. Its all about branding. The "brand" is all about "One facebook" or someshit so they want everyone to be interoperable. Thats why messenger and instgram are now able to communicate. I assume whatsapp will be added to that as well.

You're assumption is that facebook are a coherent force for evil. They really aren't that well organised. They are a collection of highly paid, naive tech people. Surrounded by some people with experience.

Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by saddlerustle on Sunday October 25, 2020 @06:10AM (#24885158)
There's no reason to believe this. If facebook was uploading scans of your home for some reason, it has to be disclosed in the privacy policy. If you think the privacy policy is lying, then it's easy enough to find the code responsible and create a scandal.
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by SturgeonsLaw on Sunday October 25, 2020 @07:37AM (#24885498)
> Physical Features: We collect information about your physical features and dimensions, such as your estimated hand size when you enable hand tracking.

> Environmental, Dimensions and Movement Data: We collect information about your environment, physical movements and dimensions when you use an XR device.

> We use information we collect when you use Oculus Products for the purposes described in the Facebook Data Policy under "How do we use this information?", including to provide, personalise and improve the Facebook Products (including seamless integration between the Facebook Products); to provide measurement, analytics and other business services (including ads)

https://www.oculus.com/legal/privacy-policy/

It's right there in black and white, they measure the dimensions of the participant and the environment, link it to a Facebook account, and use it to target ads.

Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by KaiserPro on Sunday October 25, 2020 @02:04PM (#24888396)
Your over estimation of how good facebook are at room mapping is cute.

Do you know why those clauses are in the legal agreement? its because otherwise they can't make the slam cameras work. Which means you need light houses.

Also when you submit a bug, I'm pretty sure it uploads the state of the SLAM map, which would be impossible if they didn't have the legal cover.

Now thats not to say that if they had the tech they _would_ use those bits of information. However they don't because they really don't have the tech yet.

Firstly the features that the oculus extracts from the SLAM cameras really arn't great for room mapping. Well, the cameras are fine, the feature extractor isn't. it works short term, but not for long term, or dense reconstruction.

Secondly, streaming 4x slam cameras at 60hz isn't trivial in a lab, let alone on with a battery on wifi on a generic internet connection.

Thirdly, facebook dont have anywhere near enough GPUs do the required classification/mesh generation/segmentation etc.

Finally there isn't a RGB camera.

Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by osobo on Monday October 26, 2020 @02:44AM (#24893399)
Everything about the VR investment is a mid- to long-term bet. So "they really don't have the tech yet" doesn't really mean much, since they probably will have the tech in the next few years. Both in a better (data gathering) VR platform and better facilities to analyze the gathered data. Maybe it was built by naive techies but it is a new data stream and FB has shown that if they can mine it, they will.
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by YokoZar on Sunday October 25, 2020 @10:18AM (#24886456)
As an advertiser, how would I take advantage of this? Can I click a box on Facebook to target my ads to people with small hands?
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by deepburner on Sunday October 25, 2020 @07:14AM (#24885417)
This has the trademark hackernews "why would anyone use dropbox just get an FTP account, mount it locally with curlftpfs, and then use SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem" written all over it. Facebook has been involved in countless privacy scandals so that's the reason to believe this. Why you think it's easy for a random someone to dump a closed source, probably obfuscated piece of closed source embedded software and find a specific piece of code that does a specific thing is beyond me.
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by saddlerustle on Sunday October 25, 2020 @07:22AM (#24885444)
As far as I know, despite the scandals facebook has never been shown to blatantly collect data without disclosing it in its privacy policy. It's unreasonable to assume it will start, in a niche product, over what most people probably find more sensitive than most of the data is collects.

It's "easy" for a competent software engineer, yes, not a random person. But I assume that's most of the people on HN.

Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by literallycancer on Sunday October 25, 2020 @07:54AM (#24885578)
You seem to live in a magical world where privacy policies matter and laws are enforced against corporations with unlimited legal budget.
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by mannykannot on Sunday October 25, 2020 @08:43AM (#24885876)
The author of that post lives in a world where a) Facebook has actually made the specific disclosures being discussed here, and many more; b) making such disclosures has had, at most, only trivial negative consequences for Facebook; and c) not making such disclosures could provide the sort of evidence used in the legal and legislative constraints on Facebook's operations that are sometimes proposed and occasionally attempted.
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by jiofih on Sunday October 25, 2020 @09:58AM (#24886295)
The average user does not read privacy policies. Remember Cambridge Analytica?
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by bnabueksbg on Sunday October 25, 2020 @07:12AM (#24885410)
The Oculus privacy policy indeed indicates that they collect "information about your physical features and dimensions" as well as "information about your environment, physical movements, and dimensions when you use an XR device".

Their information collection is a legitimate concern precisely because they have both the incentives (profiling and advertisement) and legal basis to collect it.

Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by ux-app on Sunday October 25, 2020 @05:46AM (#24885051)
don't be naive. If there is even a single penny to be made from mapping homes/bodies then it is already happening. Open your eyes.
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by Fnoord on Sunday October 25, 2020 @08:31AM (#24885809)
Remember the outcry regarding Google Glass. They went with smart speaker instead and combined it with 360 degrees speaker. Its like how I remember Microsoft in ~2001. There was an RCE in Windows Media Player, and they patched it. But the update containing that patch also added DRM functionality. How they got away with that, I still don't understand.
Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by lkramer on Sunday October 25, 2020 @09:07AM (#24885999)
The difference is that other people was upset by people wearing google glass, effectively making the unwilling participants.

Google Home is people's own decision within their own home.

Re:Delete Facebook and You'll Lose All Oculus Games for Good by snvzz on Monday October 26, 2020 @01:24AM (#24893054)
>Google Home speakers

You mean microphones.